Bardock's battle power

[ahill1]

Where do you have him?

Seems like that going by this interview from AT, he wasn't even close to hit the 10k mark the special gave him.

Toriyama: "To be honest, I haven’t thought it through that far, but Bardock is a low-class warrior. Although even saying that, almost all [Saiyans] were low-class warriors, and there were only about 10 mid-class warriors. And when you get to the elite warriors, there’s only King Vegeta and Prince Vegeta. Bardock is in the upper ranks as far as low-class warriors go, but he isn’t able to become a mid-class warrior. This rank is determined by an innate latent battle power, but naturally, if their battle power rises greatly afterward, they can be promoted."

 

[Papasmurf]

AT later flip-flopped around the time he wrote the Broly movie and said a 1300~1400 level warrior like Raditz was an "elite," so I take his comments on the matter with a grain of salt. I also obviously see that Episode of Bardock isn't canon and Nappa obviously disrespects Kakarrot for being a low-class warrior, so my conclusion is that he's weaker than Nappa. Judging by his depictions in Broly and Minus he doesn't appear to be some highly respected top dog among low-classes, so 3000 or so at most imo. Even lower if you go by Nappa = 4000.

 

[Pyro]

1,000 at best.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Toriyama's statement's last sentence showcases two ideas; either Bardock didn't rise to mid class purely based on his battle power, or the point about innate battle power (ie. potential measured at birth) was the main factor and the various Bardocks we saw simply didn't have enough time to be promoted on merit alone. The latter idea works better in the anime canon where he was certainly close to 10k on Kanassa, whereas the manga canon version can go either way. Assuming battle power was the primary factor though, he'd have to be below Nappa's standard 4k level, so maybe around 3k or so.

AT later flip-flopped around the time he wrote the Broly movie and said a 1300~1400 level warrior like Raditz was an "elite," so I take his comments on the matter with a grain of salt.

Raditz being a standard "elite" or mid-class like Nappa wouldn't really be contradictive though when a Saiyan's rank is determined by their battle power at birth. Raditz could've been designated as a mid-class at birth (something Minus hints at with him being allowed to go on a mission with Vegeta) and simply having not lived up to his full potential due to the circumstances surrounding him after Planet Vegeta's destruction, and it's not as though the Saiyan hierarchy would have bumped him down to low-class with only 3 Saiyans left to respect it. Raditz's claims of being a "top class warrior" also further support this notion.
The only major contradiction to Raditz's rank comes from the Daizenshuu citing him as the lowest rank and battle power amongst Saiyans, though I think it's pretty clear which voice has more sway between Toriyama and a random Bird Studios employee.

 

[ahill1]

Toriyama's statement's last sentence showcases two ideas; either Bardock didn't rise to mid class purely based on his battle power, or the point about innate battle power (ie. potential measured at birth) was the main factor and the various Bardocks we saw simply didn't have enough time to be promoted on merit alone. The latter idea works better in the anime canon where he was certainly close to 10k on Kanassa, whereas the manga canon version can go either way. Assuming battle power was the primary factor though, he'd have to be below Nappa's standard 4k level, so maybe around 3k or so.

He also stated that Bardock isn't able to up classes and that such would be possible if their battle power increases greatly. Since Bardock can't become a mid-class warrior, I can only conclude that he wouldn't be able to increase his battle power enough for such.

Raditz being a standard "elite" or mid-class like Nappa wouldn't really be contradictive though when a Saiyan's rank is determined by their battle power at birth. Raditz could've been designated as a mid-class at birth (something Minus hints at with him being allowed to go on a mission with Vegeta) and simply having not lived up to his full potential due to the circumstances surrounding him after Planet Vegeta's destruction, and it's not as though the Saiyan hierarchy would have bumped him down to low-class with only 3 Saiyans left to respect it. Raditz's claims of being a "top class warrior" also further support this notion.
The only major contradiction to Raditz's rank comes from the Daizenshuu citing him as the lowest rank and battle power amongst Saiyans, though I think it's pretty clear which voice has more sway between Toriyama and a random Bird Studios employee.

Well, Toriyama also stated in that interview that Vegeta and his father are the only elite warriors, so that seems to conflict with 1300 Saiyajins being elites.

Funnily enough, in the manga Nappa labeled himself as an elite warrior after Goku knocked him down.

 

[Future Warrior]

If we assume Raditz represents an upper-level warrior, wouldn't it suggest Bardock has to be at best around the 1000s if not lower?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Well, Toriyama also stated in that interview that Vegeta and his father are the only elite warriors, so that seems to conflict with 1300 Saiyajins being elites.

It's all about differing terminology, as elites are the same as mid-classes due to the elites between low class and super elite (eg. Nappa) being mid-class by design, a rose by any other name and all that. What Toriyama specifically said about Raditz was that he was in the same class as Nappa, and whether you refer to that as elite or mid-class is entirely interchangeable.

If we assume Raditz represents an upper-level warrior, wouldn't it suggest Bardock has to be at best around the 1000s if not lower?

Ranking determined by birth =/= Battle Power reflecting it in Raditz's case, especially considering the Daizenshuu's conflicting take.

 

[Future Warrior]

Ranking determined by birth =/= Battle Power reflecting it in Raditz's case, especially considering the Daizenshuu's conflicting take.

But it's not suggested anywhere that Raditz is much weaker than his rank presents. Nappa may be far more powerful than him, but he probably represents the upper end of the spectrum.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Raditz being a standard "elite" or mid-class like Nappa wouldn't really be contradictive though when a Saiyan's rank is determined by their battle power at birth. Raditz could've been designated as a mid-class at birth (something Minus hints at with him being allowed to go on a mission with Vegeta) and simply having not lived up to his full potential due to the circumstances surrounding him after Planet Vegeta's destruction, and it's not as though the Saiyan hierarchy would have bumped him down to low-class with only 3 Saiyans left to respect it. Raditz's claims of being a "top class warrior" also further support this notion.
The only major contradiction to Raditz's rank comes from the Daizenshuu citing him as the lowest rank and battle power amongst Saiyans, though I think it's pretty clear which voice has more sway between Toriyama and a random Bird Studios employee.
[/quote]

Raditz is said to be born a lowest class though.

Besides the interview, was he ever identified as a elite class? I could swear he told Goku he was one, but I can't find anything on that.

 

[Hector]

Equal to Raditz.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Raditz is said to be born a lowest class though.

Toriyama's word >> That of some staff member at Bird Studios.

Besides the interview, was he ever identified as a elite class? I could swear he told Goku he was one, but I can't find anything on that.

He identifies himself as a "top rate warrior" at some point into his battle with Goku and Piccolo I believe, and definitely says so when he's stomping Galu's chest after he let go of his tail.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention] what about the interview in the OP with Toriyama saying only Vegeta were elite? Maybe he changed his mind? That one is from around 2011 after all, while his acknowledgement of Raditz being elite is from a 2018 interview.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah AT obviously changed his mind (or forgot his previous opinion). He used yo say Nappa was among the higher ups in the low class and that there were only 15 or so mid-class warriors

 

[Future Warrior]

@Captain Cadaver what about the interview in the OP with Toriyama saying only Vegeta were elite? Maybe he changed his mind? That one is from around 2011 after all, while his acknowledgement of Raditz being elite is from a 2018 interview.

CC just said that it’s just a matter of Toriyama using different terminologies. When he says mid-class he just means elite while Vegeta is the super-elite.

Either way, I don’t really like this change. I preferred the 3 of them representing the power of the hierarchy

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Minus! Bardock is a complete jobber who would have thought