Base Gotenks (pre-RoSaT)'s standing

Tapion

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Just my personal interpretation of the Daizenshuu statement about him surpassing Vegeta "and the others".

Clearly, Gotenks was already way above everyone weaker than Vegeta, or perhaps Gohan. But since only Vegeta's name is highlighted, that (IMO) suggests Vegeta > Base Gotenks > Gohan >>> the others

Which fits with what I have Cell at.
 

Pakl

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Base Gotenks is overrated. It's gag. While his base is still is powerhouse, he is definetly below SSjin 2 Goku. He got his ass kicked off screem. Sjoukd not be taken seriously. Plus the Daizenshuu note.

If Base Gotenks was that strong, his SSjin would one shot SSjin 3 Goku
 

Captain Cadaver

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Pakl said:
Base Gotenks is overrated. It's gag.
People obviously don't know what a gag means nowadays it seems, as I've already gone over in this thread.

If Base Gotenks was that strong, his SSjin would one shot SSjin 3 Goku
Static multipliers are a fan-based concept that mean nothing compared to actual evidence.
 

Pakl

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Captain Cadaver said:
Pakl said:
Base Gotenks is overrated. It's gag.
People obviously don't know what a gag means nowadays it seems, as I've already gone over in this thread.

If Base Gotenks was that strong, his SSjin would one shot SSjin 3 Goku
Static multipliers are a fan-based concept that mean nothing compared to actual evidence.
Multipliers are official from SEG
 

Captain Cadaver

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Pakl said:
Multipliers are official from SEG
Which doesn't matter if the plot's events don't support them. Guidebooks are meant to supplement the original work, not take precedent. Trunks stated Post-Rosat Base Gotenks should be able to fight evenly with Boo based on his showings prior, with Piccolo even seeming in agreement, yet a 50+x gap between Post-Rosat SSJ Gotenks and SS3 Goku is never implied at all. Gero's calculations also don't work at all if treating the SSJ multiplier as a static 50x at that point of the series and if the deciding factor of placing pre-Rosat Base Gotenks so low is something as arbitrary as multipliers when all supporting evidence in-series point to him being SS2 tier, then you're left with either admitting his SSJ multiplier isn't 50x or making the gap between SS2 and SS3 a 50x one or so, and one option is obviously far less ridiculous than the other.

Besides, Toriyama stated himself he initially envisioned SSJ as a 10x boost before the inflation he'd gave Kaioken prevented that during the Freeza Arc, and official material such as the Dragon Ball Super manga present the gap between SSJ and SSB as being little more than a 10x one, whereas the former Goku's performance against Initial Hit wasn't a completely different league from what he accomplished in base. We also have Rild implying that by the time of GT, the SSJ multiplier was little more than a 2x boost.
Yes, I can already hear you typing "Hurr durr, GT and Super aren't the same as the manga!" Well, guess what? Neither is a secondary, supplementary source, especially when one of the most notable ones (The Daizenshuu) covers both canon and non-canon information and is far from an infallible source.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Captain Cadaver said:
Pakl said:
Multipliers are official from SEG
Trunks stated Post-Rosat Base Gotenks should be able to fight evenly with Boo based on his showings prior, with Piccolo even seeming in agreement, yet a 50+x gap between Post-Rosat SSJ Gotenks and SS3 Goku is never implied at all.

That's literally an implication that Post Rosat SSJ Gotenks is +50x SSJ3 Goku :wtf
 

Captain Cadaver

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
That's literally an implication that Post Rosat SSJ Gotenks is +50x SSJ3 Goku :wtf
If the SSJ multiplier were to stay as a static 50x then perhaps, but Elder Kaioshin still implies Goku isn't light years away from the Boo Arc top tiers and nothing within the Gotenks VS Boo fight implies the SSJ boost was anything so colossal.
 

Pakl

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Still, I dont see why Base Gotenks needs to be so strong. I think he is weaker than SSjin 2 Goku and Vegeta and just around SPC. The Daizenshuu also implies so if I want some lousy evidence. Its better than nothing
 
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