Base Gotenks Range

[SIAD]

@FeatsofPower

Why do you call him Krillen?

Regarding Gotenks. I strongly believe that SSJ's multiplier can be 50x Base, with few exceptions like Arc Androids and fusions.

I think both the Base Saiyans and the Humans got a lot stronger in the Arc Android.

Then the Saiyans, when training in the Rosat, have a multiplier of 50x the SSJ on their Bases.

I think the SSJ multiplier for Gotenks decreases considerably, I have something like this:

Goku SSJ2 = 1
SSJ3 = 4

Gotenks Base (Pre) = 2
SSJ = 5

Gotenks Base (Post) = 10
SSJ3 = 100

In this way, you can have Gotenks Base (Pre) much more powerful than the SSJ2 and, in turn, Gotenks SSJ (Pre) only a little stronger than Goku SSJ3.

As for Vegetto, I see him differently. In DBGT the 1st character to beat Vegetto SSJ (Boo), was SBV1. Therefore, the SSJ multiplier for Vegetto is not nerfed, while the SSJ multiplier for Saiyans in DBGT is nerfed. I remember at some point where the Elder Kaioshin mentions that Vegetto is much more powerful than he imagined and that was when Vegetto was turned into an SSJ.

I think Base Gokhan (Potara) would have been tremendously superior to Base Vegetto, but the difference being that Gokhan would have had a nerfed SSJ multiplier, due to Goku and Gohan not being rivals.

Anyway I think Gokhan SSJ3 > Vegetto SSJ3 (Boo).

In BoS, Goku and Vegeta SSJ2 had surpassed Ultimate Gohan, therefore in BoS, Vegetto SSJ3 > Gokhan SSJ3.

 

[FeatsofPower]

As for Vegetto, I see him differently.

Why should he be different?

I think Base Gokhan (Potara) would have been tremendously superior to Base Vegetto,

Why should he be different?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Why is Dende so happy that they might not have to fight? Shouldn’t it be an easy fight for Gotenks? @FeatsofPower

Winning the battle without fighting is always optimal compared to not. It still will be a ferocious battle.

 

[SIAD]

@FeatsofPower

Perhaps as Goku and Vegeta are tremendous Warriors and at the same time they are great rivals, that made the SSJ Multiplier for Vegetto not get nerfed.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Winning the battle without fighting is always optimal compared to not. It still will be a ferocious battle.

So Gotenks is much closer to Boo than we thought?

I’m thinking there’s actually room for Gotenks to still be below Fat Boo. If you look at the events carefully, Boo came before the 2 days Goku asked were over. Piccolo never says their training is complete, except when trying to appease Super Boo. The anime actually sounds like the boys still had a lot of time to train.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I’m thinking there’s actually room for Gotenks to still be below Fat Boo.

Absolutely not. Goku comforts his soon to be re-widowed wife who just lost her favorite son that she won’t be losing her other son. The idea that Goku doesn’t know is lol worthy. He’s not going to doom his family and the universe guys.

 

[FeatsofPower]

The anime actually sounds like the boys still had a lot of time to train.

This never happened. Ssj Gotenks power is always portrayed as being supreme.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

That scene has always been regarded as a plothole. Either we didn’t see Goku saying that or Babidi had already stopped transmitting. Babidi said the whole world is watching the fight:

Spoiler

View attachment 1605

I mean, Babidi doesn't even know where Goten, Trunks and Piccolo are and that's why he asks for information, when he says that is he refering to the population that is on the Earth or in general?

Spoiler

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282),P9.3
Piccolo: "If that bastard felt like it, he could feel like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye...!"
Goku: "It's alright. I don't think he'll take out the Earth. After all, I told him in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy..."
Note: Goku actually never told Boo this (apparently he's gone senile in the afterlife).

 

[FeatsofPower]

Note: Goku actually never told Boo this (apparently he's gone senile in the afterlife).

He did, it's just off screen.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

He did, it's just off screen.

I mean, if you put attention to the scans I provided in this thread alone, you'll have realized that he doesn't. But I'll post it once again.

Spoiler

Therefore, Goku stating that remains unsupported.

Sorry boy.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I mean, if you put attention to the scans I provided in this thread alone, you'll have realized that he doesn't. But I'll post it once again.

The next panel Buu asks if they will be strong, it cuts to Babidi and we never see Goku answer.

Later, Goku tells us what his answer was to Buu when he speaks to Piccolo.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

The next panel Buu asks if they will be strong, it cuts to Babidi and we never see Goku answer.

Later, Goku tells us what his answer was to Buu when he speaks to Piccolo.

Goku doesn't give an answer and then teleport, what are you talking about?

Even if he says so, it can also be explained because Goku wanted Buu to wait; not because he is saying the true. Goku implied having more confidence in his SSJ3 power to defeat Majin Buu, but wanted the boys to give a try.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Goku doesn't give an answer and then teleport, what are you talking about?

He does answer Buu. Goku later tells us what his answer was and Buu later talks about what Goku's answer was. It just happened off-screen, the manga was focused on Babidi's dialogue during the time Goku gave his answer.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Another thing about Gotenks is him being considered a gamble. Gokhan or Gogeta were considered surefire, even against Gotenks-Boo the big problem is Boo letting them fuse, not Gohan learning the dance. Vegeta learned it within an hour in Broly.

Yet for Gotenks, Piccolo thinks the boys might not learn it on time? And Goku asks for two entire days to let the boys learn?

And when Goku does admit to Piccolo it’s a nasty gamble, I’m not sure if it’s the same gamble Piccolo talked earlier. Just one page earlier Goku told Piccolo that Boo would wait and they had enough time…

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

He does answer Buu. Goku later tells us what his answer was and Buu later talks about what Goku's answer was. It just happened off-screen, the manga was focused on Babidi's dialogue during the time Goku gave his answer.

Even then, Buu never tells that "someone stronger than Goku will appear" part.

Initially, he just referrs as "the ones who'll fight me.":

Spoiler

Then, he refuse to wait due to his own impatience:

Spoiler

Buu realizes that the ones who will fight him were Goten and Trunks:

Spoiler

Then, Buu realizes that his actual opponent was Gotenks, even then, it can be inferred that even he doesn't accomplish his expectatives to what Goku supposedly say and actually mocked him:

Spoiler

So, yes, Goku stating that someone stronger than him will appear is unsupported.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Even then, Buu never tells that "someone stronger than Goku will appear" part.

Initially, he just referrs as "the ones who'll fight me.":

Buu is seen asking for the strong guys. Nothing Buu says contradicts what Goku said, it only compliments what Goku said.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

As far as Buu's knowledge is concerned; everything he knows is that someone will appear in 2 days, he doesn't know wheter it'll be stronger than Goku or not, but actually shows deception due to knowing that'll be the one that he has already beaten and then proceeds to call him weak.

 

[FeatsofPower]

As far as Buu's knowledge is concerned; everything he knows is that someone will appear in 2 days

Someone stronger than Goku

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Someone stronger than Goku

He never implied that in the least.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He never implied that in the least.

He literally stated it my guy