Base Vegeta (Cell Games) vs Piccolo (Cell Games)

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gohan entered the fight still believing he could win while adhering to the "no Super Saiyan" rule and his thought process remains consistent with this. The only thing he has doubts of is winning by accident. He doesn't doubt his ability to win by showcasing his superhuman abilities i.e base power.

Wondering if he can win by accident doesn’t mean he can win a serious fight. That’s a pretty big leap.

 

[Goku9001]

Wondering if he can win by accident doesn’t mean he can win a serious fight. That’s a pretty big leap.

That's what Gohan was thinking and he entered the fight intending to adhere to the "no Super Saiyan rule".

 

[FeatsofPower]

Wondering if he can win by accident doesn’t mean he can win a serious fight. That’s a pretty big leap.

Ala what Shen did at the 23rd Budokai. Shen had a significant advantage to be able to pull that off and still fell victim to Yamcha's Spirit Ball attack.

Gohan thinks he can probably win, but is concerned Kibito may be tough enough he can't only pretend he got lucky, he'll actually have to fight for real.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

When does Gohan think he can win? He never even considers fighting him straight.

 

[Pyro]

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yep. Gohan is only concerned about winning on accident. He doesn't care how a real fight would look like. It's possible he'd have withdrawn if Kibito hadn't asked for SSJ, but we'll never know.

Come to think of it, he'd actually realize Kibito is weak and win "by accident", lol.

 

[Goku9001]

When does Gohan think he can win? He never even considers fighting him straight.

And when Gohan is told to go Super Saiyan, does Gohan feel like it's necessary or is there another reason why he opts to transform?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

And when Gohan is told to go Super Saiyan, does Gohan feel like it's necessary or is there another reason why he opts to transform?

He doesn't say. He's too busy wondering how Kibito knows about SSJ and why he wants him to transform.

 

[Goku9001]

He doesn't say. He's too busy wondering how Kibito knows about SSJ and why he wants him to transform.

He doesn't say because he doesn't need to. He only believes he needs to go Super Saiyan because he's pressured by Piccolo & co.

 

[ahill1]

Most people here are crazy, you crazy, crazy people. Piccolo stomps Vegeta's ass into smithereens.

He outperformed even MSSJ Goku, while he was tired. Goku didn't fall below base Vegeta as he could even keep an aura up

The idea that the Cell Juniors went easier on Piccolo is also kinda... handwaving the implications just like you say it's handwaved later on the Boo arc. Cell's main intention is making Gohan suffer... he knows Gohan and Piccolo share a bond, assumedly... would the Cell Junior go easier on Piccolo and on Piccolo alone? Not killing is one thing, because they didn't want to kill, they wanted to torture so Gohan could snap...but that's different from leaving the fighter standing up and in good conditions, if they had the power to put Piccolo down, he'd be eating dirty like the Earthlings... they don't need to kill him, but they must make it as most painful for Gohan as possible.

Gohan wants to win. Piccolo knows he has no chance of winning if they fight in SSJ. Knowing Piccolo, do you think he'd be "woww they won't fight in SSJ, I can win then!!!". No, because Piccolo isn't like that, he knows under normal circumstances he is outmatched and won't celebrate a win in which he knows the other fighter couldn't use his true power. He's like Vegeta on this matter, like when Vegeta was in pain Goku held back SSJ3 on him. Gohan knows Piccolo well. Vegeta likely does too, and even if he thought Piccolo would go for the W on him if they were pitied together, he'd give two fucks and turn into a SSJ. He wouldn't care about the media if Piccolo wanted to KO him. Maybe he could even plot an strategy of turning SSJ so fast for the human eyes to see and KO Piccolo quickly, using it in a very quick burst. Moreover, there's no guarantee who he will face first. The odds of him facing Piccolo first is low. And he took Goku first. He defeats Goku (in his head) and then done, tournament lost all meaning to him. So it's very easy to explain all of this, even more with Gohan knowing Piccolo's mentality and knowing he isn't there to win and isn't there for the money like 18. With 18 tho, then yeah, he has to be prepared for her to use FP.

 

[Goku9001]

Most people here are crazy, you crazy, crazy people. Piccolo stomps Vegeta's ass into smithereens.

He outperformed even MSSJ Goku, while he was tired. Goku didn't fall below base Vegeta as he could even keep an aura up

The idea that the Cell Juniors went easier on Piccolo is also kinda... handwaving the implications just like you say it's handwaved later on the Boo arc. Cell's main intention is making Gohan suffer... he knows Gohan and Piccolo share a bond, assumedly... would the Cell Junior go easier on Piccolo and on Piccolo alone? Not killing is one thing, because they didn't want to kill, they wanted to torture so Gohan could snap...but that's different from leaving the fighter standing up and in good conditions, if they had the power to put Piccolo down, he'd be eating dirty like the Earthlings... they don't need to kill him, but they must make it as most painful for Gohan as possible.

Gohan wants to win. Piccolo knows he has no chance of winning if they fight in SSJ. Knowing Piccolo, do you think he'd be "woww they won't fight in SSJ, I can win then!!!". No, because Piccolo isn't like that, he knows under normal circumstances he is outmatched and won't celebrate a win in which he knows the other fighter couldn't use his true power. He's like Vegeta on this matter, like when Vegeta was in pain Goku held back SSJ3 on him. Gohan knows Piccolo well. Vegeta likely does too, and even if he thought Piccolo would go for the W on him if they were pitied together, he'd give two fucks and turn into a SSJ. He wouldn't care about the media if Piccolo wanted to KO him. Maybe he could even plot an strategy of turning SSJ so fast for the human eyes to see and KO Piccolo quickly, using it in a very quick burst. Moreover, there's no guarantee who he will face first. The odds of him facing Piccolo first is low. And he took Goku first. He defeats Goku (in his head) and then done, tournament lost all meaning to him. So it's very easy to explain all of this, even more with Gohan knowing Piccolo's mentality and knowing he isn't there to win and isn't there for the money like 18. With 18 tho, then yeah, he has to be prepared for her to use FP.

Goku: "Sounds like those two are the only ones to watch out for."

 

[FeatsofPower]

Gohan isn't even considering using Super Saiyan at all even after Piccolo crapped himself. Gohan is so superior it's not even a thought that crosses his mind.

I tell you, this place is going backwards. These guys were on board with this stuff in like 2011 I guess that's what happens when you stay here forever.

 

[ahill1]

He said that to everyone iirc. He didn't specify who he was directing that. It's jsut because they are mysterious beings... the other competitors besides the main team they all know of are trash, but Shin and Kibito are not. That's literally it.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He said that to everyone iirc. He didn't specify who he was directing that. It's jsut because they are mysterious beings... the other competitors besides the main team they all know of are trash, but Shin and Kibito are not. That's literally it.

Exactly.

Shin and Kibito might be able to beat them, whereas the others definitely can't. THAT IS THE POINT!

 

[ahill1]

Might be able to defeat who? He was talking about when looking at the cast in general. He pinpointed Shin and Kibito as the dangerous ones out of the scrubs who were fighting lol. It means 0.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Might be able to defeat who?

The ones who might have a chance? The only ones capable of winning the tournament are the Saiyans. That's been well established at this point already.

We have this.

Base Saiyans > Piccolo > Android 18

Then it seems Gohan seems to be indicating he assumes Goku and Vegeta are ahead of him and it's a toss up between them.

Goku <=> Vegeta > Gohan > Piccolo > 18

 

[Goku9001]

He said that to everyone iirc. He didn't specify who he was directing that. It's jsut because they are mysterious beings... the other competitors besides the main team they all know of are trash, but Shin and Kibito are not. That's literally it.

Goku was literally thinking that to himself. He never said it out loud.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I don't think many people read through the Buu Saga thoroughly enough. The only was to really grasp the Buu Saga properly is to read it and constantly ask you what the narrative is. Because it's crappy writing. All over the place. But if you sit down with it you can see it easily enough.

 

[ahill1]

 

[ahill1]

Goku was saying to himself. By that logic, he shouldn't worry about Gohan, Vegeta....

He's just assessing the competitors besides the main team. Let's not toss out statements without considering context, ppl