Battle Level vs Match Level

[p123]

Can anyone try to explain what's going on in the 22nd Budokai w/ this issue?

Roshi thinks that Goku may have surpassed him with his fast footwork. Tien is sweating and is barely able to keep his eyes on him. So how does this work?

Then Goku has a battle level on top of it. It doesn't seem like Tien alters his power at all in the final match. This is a confusing topic.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Ahill did one of the accurastests breakdown on the issue on his 22nd/Piccolo Arc breakdown.

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12093

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Define ''different level of power''. Cell was stated to be ''two steps ahead of Goku''.
Is it ok if the gap between Match Level/Battle Level is as big as the gap between
MSSJ Goku/Suppressed Cell? In that case, everything is solved...

Roshi/Match Level- 140
Tenshinhan- 150
Battle Level- 160

 

[p123]

Well we saw Match Level vs Tien. That was an even fight. Then all of a sudden we see Goku shit stomp Tien. It was a much larger gap than Roshi had when he powered up on Tien and that should have been substantial...

Match Level Goku 1,500
Tien 1,500
Battle Level Goku 2,250
Tien FP 2,200

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Well we saw Match Level vs Tien. That was an even fight. Then all of a sudden we see Goku shit stomp Tien. It was a much larger gap than Roshi had when he powered up on Tien and that should have been substantial...

Match Level Goku 1,500
Tien 1,500
Battle Level Goku 2,250
Tien FP 2,200

There is no way Goku gained 1.5x a gap over Tien. The initial advantage Goku gained was because Tien got surprised that
Goku raised his power more.
Right before the fight, Tien said, in his head 'this time, i might have an enjoyable fight', which implies he went all out from
the start.

 

[p123]

Tien never held an advantage over Goku? They fought evenly. Goku uses a super speed technique that Tien uses his three eyes to counter. He unloads on Goku and Goku says ok, you want to play rough?

 

[sei'taer]

Tenshinhan is clearly just stronger than match level goku. Then don't fight evenly at all. Goku lands exactly one blow before going to battle level the rest of that stage of the fight is all tenshinhan. At no point is tenshinhan struggling, he has a sneer on his face the entire time.

Then at battle level goku holds a clear advantage the rest of the fight.

 

[p123]

Match Level Goku- I might possibly be able to have an enjoyable fight.
Battle Level Goku- I never knew there was someone like you out there who could really challenge me... I've never felt so alive.

LOL

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Match Level Goku- I might possibly be able to have an enjoyable fight.
Battle Level Goku- I never knew there was someone like you out there who could really challenge me... I've never felt so alive.

LOL

In the first case, he knew he'd have to use all his power (hence the 'enjoyable fight'), but he was sure that would be enough to win.
In the second case, he realized he might as well lose, but he also got excited that there was a foe who could give him a match he
did not have in the bag.

 

[sei'taer]

Match Level Goku- I might possibly be able to have an enjoyable fight.
Battle Level Goku- I never knew there was someone like you out there who could really challenge me... I've never felt so alive.

LOL

And what are you trying to say those quotes mean?

The first was in response to the end of the fight with kuririn, which proved to him that goku was at least close enough to his level he wouldn't win easily. This is similar to the comments by roshi about both fighters that hypothetically put them above him. After goku goes to battle level Tenshinhan realizes he could lose and is excited about it, nothing more.

 

[p123]

Battle Level Goku absolutely destroys Initial Tien. It's about as bad of a beating as you can get. The gap is massive.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Battle Level Goku absolutely destroys Initial Tien. It's about as bad of a beating as you can get. The gap is massive.

It wasn't massive. He didn't one shot Tien. He just got a few free hits because of Tien's initial surprise.

 

[p123]

How was it surprise? Goku told him he was going to power up...

How big is the gap between Battle Level Goku and Initial Tien?

From what I can see, its bigger than the gap between Powered Up Jackie Chun/ Initial Tien (Vs Chun) Would you agree?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

How was it surprise? Goku told him he was going to power up...

Tien did not believe that Goku had more power in reserve.

 

[SSJ2]

I quite like those numbers you posted, P.

Imo I think you could raise Goku's gap over FP Tenshinhan. From what I see, Goku is always a step or two ahead of Ten even after their initial clash where it seems like Tenshinhan powered up after. Goku got the best of Tenshinhan when they were both using the after image. Goku got the best of him while Ten was trying to use the Taiyoken, demonstrating speed fast enough to get Roshi's glasses and also intercept Ten's attack. Tenshinhan and Roshi both commented on the fact that they couldn't notice Goku getting the glasses, so he was moving at unimaginable speeds..

Tenshinhan gets a lucky hit on Goku when he was returning the glasses, and then was aided by Chaozu's paralysis. Tenshinhan briefly got the upper hand when he used 4 arms, but Goku even overpowered that and started smoking him with his 8 arm technique. Tenshinhan then resorts to the Kikoho as he is out of options.

Personally I think this is more like a 1.1x gap, something more akin to Goku vs Cell.

 

[p123]

I'll look into it.

Thanks, what numbers are you talking about? Just for Dragonball or all of them?

 

[SSJ2]

Well we saw Match Level vs Tien. That was an even fight. Then all of a sudden we see Goku shit stomp Tien. It was a much larger gap than Roshi had when he powered up on Tien and that should have been substantial...

Match Level Goku 1,500
Tien 1,500
Battle Level Goku 2,250
Tien FP 2,200

These #s

 

[p123]

Oh yea. I just go based on what is shown.

Match Level Goku = Initial Tien (Tien comments he might have an enjoyable fight)
Battle Level Goku (Goku states to be stronger)
Battle Level Goku proceeds to tear Tien a new asshole. This is a huge power up. Tien is getting completely shit fucked and all these nerfers don't want to admit it. Go ahead and compare Battle Level Goku vs Initial Tien to Jackie Chun Powered Up vs Initial Tien and Goku Healed vs Tambourine.

Battle Level Goku puts a whooping on Tien in an unreal fashion. That's a 1.5x gap if I've ever saw one. Then Tien talks about how excited he is to finally be pushed. So yea, that's a power up in my book.

And oh, they are so nice and clean!

 

[SSJ2]

Yea I agree with you on the 1.5x gap. I'm referring to these two numbers specifically:

Battle Level Goku 2,250
Tien FP 2,200

I think this should be a much larger gap.

 

[p123]

I'll have to look into it. I always felt they were equals more or less and only gave Goku the edge because Tien states he's inferior. I have to look at the fight again.