Boo arc Piccolo vs Base Saiyans

[SSJ2]

Gohan went out of the rocks undamaged.

I mean after that. Cell was too much for him from the bear hug and on. Even a semi enraged Gohan was easily swatted away.

 

[ahill1]

I mean after that. Cell was too much for him from the bear hug and on. Even a semi enraged Gohan was easily swatted away.

Cell hadn't the speed to hit Gohan beforehand.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Freeza said the same thing. More speed generally means more power.

No. More speed means more speed. That's why they say speed. We also clearly see Cell didn't raise his power when his attacks do jack shit to Gohan.

 

[SSJ2]

Cell hadn't the speed to hit Gohan beforehand.

He powered up twice. Once when he upped his speed, second prior to the bear hug.

No. More speed means more speed. That's why they say speed. We also clearly see Cell didn't raise his power when his attacks do jack shit to Gohan.

So if you get hit in the head with a bowling ball at 0.01 m/s, you're telling me it would hurt equally to getting hit by a bowling ball moving at 100m/s? Ok.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So if you get hit in the head with a bowling ball at 0.01 m/s, you're telling me it would hurt equally to getting hit by a bowling ball moving at 100m/s? Ok.

I noticed you just told Ahill you think Cell powered up when he bear hugged Gohan, which I agree. You think he did two power ups?

 

[SSJ2]

I noticed you just told Ahill you think Cell powered up when he bear hugged Gohan, which I agree. You think he did two power ups?

Yeah, I do. I think when he initially raised his speed it simply wasn't enough. He was still below Gohan. He caught him off guard in his first attack that did no damage.

 

[Warmmedown]

Physical power would double if you doubled your speed, but in DBZ how much is physical power and how much is due to ki output? Maybe normally the speed and power increase in proportion with the ki increase, but if you're keeping your ki the same you can sacrifice some of the power for speed. Like you have a ki of 50, with 25 points each for power and speed. Your ki increases to 100, then your power and speed go up to 50 each. But you could choose to focus your ki on speed and have 70 speed and 30 power or have the inverse allocation if you want to focus on power.

What bothers me the most isn’t even Cell’s silent power up, but the fact he initially thought he only had to raise his speed. Wtf was he thinking?

Maybe he thought he's strong enough to hurt Gohan, but just needed to use his travel speed to catch him, grab him and then go back to using his power. So when he says he's going to use his full speed, he only meant for catching Gohan and not for actually striking him. He might as well increase everything at once like he did vs SSJ2, but maybe that's not as entertaining for him.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It’s obviously not his travel speed since he needs to pin Gohan and hit him, not just reach him. It’s just that he’s obviously not a bowling ball getting 100,000x faster. He probably didn’t even double his speed.

I can’t find the quote in the Strength Checker, but Piccolo says 17 is fast but has light punches while 17 acknowledges Piccolo is the opposite. So power is the weight behind a punch, while speed is the force. A football can hurt you, but it needs to be unbelievably fast to seriously hurt, while a bowling ball requires little to no speed to hurt.

 

[ahill1]

He powered up twice. Once when he upped his speed, second prior to the bear hug.



So if you get hit in the head with a bowling ball at 0.01 m/s, you're telling me it would hurt equally to getting hit by a bowling ball moving at 100m/s? Ok.

Maybe. But like I said, that ain't a many times power up.

 

[ahill1]

@Super Saiyan

Yeah, I do. I think when he initially raised his speed it simply wasn't enough. He was still below Gohan. He caught him off guard in his first attack that did no damage.

Maybe he upper his speed, only, and then adjusted his power to his speed level.

 

[SSJ2]

He probably didn’t even double his speed.

Of course not. It was only enough to catch Gohan off guard for one attack.

can’t find the quote in the Strength Checker, but Piccolo says 17 is fast but has light punches while 17 acknowledges Piccolo is the opposite. So power is the weight behind a punch, while speed is the force.

This is fair when comparing two different fighters, but Cell is Cell. His punch should carry more force if it carries more speed. Otherwise you'd have to make the illogical argument that he began pulling his punches at that speed level to match the force of his prior attacks. Why the fuck would he do that?

Maybe. But like I said, that ain't a many times power up.

Cell @ Goku: 110
Cell True Speed: 130
Cell bear hug: 170
Gohan: 140

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

This is fair when comparing two different fighters, but Cell is Cell. His punch should carry more force if it carries more speed. Otherwise you'd have to make the illogical argument that he began pulling his punches at that speed level to match the force of his prior attacks. Why the fuck would he do that?

The logic here is that the weight behind the punch didn’t increase as much as it’s speed. He’s going to be landing more blows, but it would’ve hurt more if he raised his strength too. Which he did after Gohan took zero damage from his first attacks.

 

[SSJ2]

The logic here is that the weight behind the punch didn’t increase as much as it’s speed. He’s going to be landing more blows, but it would’ve hurt more if he raised his strength too. Which he did after Gohan took zero damage from his first attacks.

So you're agreeing that his power did increase by virtue of raising his speed? Then we are in agreement. That's all I'm trying to argue here.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So you're agreeing that his power did increase by virtue of raising his speed? Then we are in agreement. That's all I'm trying to argue here.

I’m not sure tbh. The force of the attacks raises since so did the speed, but not as much. It’s a negligible boost since Cell is not intending to raise his power.

 

[VampireWicked]

I have The Supreme Kai on the side of SuperSaiyan G3, It explains Piccolo's not wanting to fight & his inner statements of the Supreme Kai being so far above him.

Anywhere from a SuperSaiyan G2 to G3 could easily 1Shot Frieza even in his 100% Final Form, so The Supreme Kai being in the range of SuperSaiyan G3 & Piccolo somewhere above SuperSaiyan G1 yet weaker than SuperSaiyan G2 works in my view. As that could also explain the look of amazement when Goku, Vegeta were taking out Yakon & Pui-Pui also why The Supreme Kai was so cautious of them.
This also doesn't contradict any statement mad by Lord Beerus in Super Anime/Manga of Base Saiyans being weaker than Frieza.

Also upholds the & does not contradict the notion of

"What about the change in Goku’s battle power after that?
Even after the battle with Freeza, formidable enemies surpassing human knowledge appeared one after the other to face Goku. Though the power-ups received after having wounds healed became small, Goku and co. began using transformations and fusions to increase their battle powers, to the point where they could no longer be measured numerically…

The ending paragraph seems to mostly be a way of explaining why no battle powers are available after the battle with Freeza, saying that past this point battle powers become simply immeasurable. The way the note about near-death power-ups becoming “small” is phrased in Japanese (sukunakunatta), it could either mean that they became small, infrequent, or simply insufficient."

in any way shape of form.

Android18 vs Base Kids.
Android18 vs Base Kids where Kids are equal to or stronger.
Nothing suggests Kids are equal to or stronger than Android18 at that point.
Nothing from the guide or the material itself.
Nowhere in that phrase of "demonstrating strength on par with No. 18's" ever suggested Android18 went all out or even took them as a serious threat.
No time was there ever any suggestion she saw them while in disguise as Saiyan or anything beyond a human.
Nor does it ever suggest she would risk the life of her daughter & go all out while she's in the stands below.
Which explains her surprise & look on her face when they tossed a high powered Ki Blast that missed, backing the reasoning of why she ended the fight, which also stacks again the claim of their supposed equal strength.
Evidence of her concern for her daughter below.