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I have a feeling this has been done before, but whatever. Does the nigga have to be above the triclops?
BOZ Tenshinhan vs Mr Popo
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Popo = Unweighted Goku (Finishing Ten). So yeah the gap is big, I don't think Ten managed to close it. I look at Kami's statement as referring to both him and Popo not being surpassed until the lookout training.
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Kami only said about himself not being surpassed.
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Kami never said anything about not being surpassed. He said everyone had surpassed him. It's quite possible Tien surpassed Kami long before he even reached the Lookout. But I don't prefer that.
Realistically, I'm sure the humans are training very hard. Piccolo is still out there, the gap in power between them was absolutely massive and every night they go to sleep, they know Piccolo could strike at any moment. Not any time to get lazy imo.
We know Goku and Piccolo powered up immensely over the 5 year gap. Goku even says "So you've been training desperately too?" when he sees Piccolo's full power.
5 years can bring a lot of gains in power. We can't be quite sure just how much, but at maximum I still like Tien under Kami.
I don't have a problem with everyone gaining the same amount of power percentage wise as of now. Unless you really want to further the already massive gap between the humans and Goku/Piccolo.
Realistically, I'm sure the humans are training very hard. Piccolo is still out there, the gap in power between them was absolutely massive and every night they go to sleep, they know Piccolo could strike at any moment. Not any time to get lazy imo.
We know Goku and Piccolo powered up immensely over the 5 year gap. Goku even says "So you've been training desperately too?" when he sees Piccolo's full power.
5 years can bring a lot of gains in power. We can't be quite sure just how much, but at maximum I still like Tien under Kami.
I don't have a problem with everyone gaining the same amount of power percentage wise as of now. Unless you really want to further the already massive gap between the humans and Goku/Piccolo.
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p123 said:
Nice essay, honey, but you didn't tell me anything about how you think BOZ Tien stands to Popo (sensually batting eyes).
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Haha...
Well what metric can we go by? The only metric is that Goku and Piccolo have been training desperately. The next is the dreaded scouter numbers of epic fail.
Logically speaking, Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamucha have been training desperately as well. They were hopelessly weak before. If you go by the scouters they closed the gap on Goku and Piccolo by a lot. Going from roughly 10x weaker to only 2x weaker.
But I think the scouter numbers are a joke, no way should the humans be this close.
It has been 5 years, are you really a Dragonball fan and going to tell me Tenshinhan of all people can't close the gap between himself and the Unweighted Goku he fought against in 5 years? Previously he went from marginally superior to Tambourine to being above fucking Youth Restored Demon King Piccolo. So...
Well what metric can we go by? The only metric is that Goku and Piccolo have been training desperately. The next is the dreaded scouter numbers of epic fail.
Logically speaking, Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Yamucha have been training desperately as well. They were hopelessly weak before. If you go by the scouters they closed the gap on Goku and Piccolo by a lot. Going from roughly 10x weaker to only 2x weaker.
But I think the scouter numbers are a joke, no way should the humans be this close.
It has been 5 years, are you really a Dragonball fan and going to tell me Tenshinhan of all people can't close the gap between himself and the Unweighted Goku he fought against in 5 years? Previously he went from marginally superior to Tambourine to being above fucking Youth Restored Demon King Piccolo. So...
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Tenshinhan doesn't have to be stronger than Popo. Gains aren't always consistent. Not saying it's impossible but the story still seems to portray Popo and Kami as being monsters compared to the humans. I also don't think everyone's gains were the same as according to the scouter Kuririn is in between Yamcha and Ten's power level when at the 23rd he was much closer to Yamcha and Goku's weights don't seem to give him anywhere near the boost they did before, likewise Weighted Goku is much stronger than Ten when previously they were about equal.
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Anime-wise, Popo > Ten is suggested due to Ten talking about how incredible Popo's power was in a filler episode iirc. I'd probably take that into account due to the lack of solid evidence in comparing the two manga-wise.
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If we always went to the anime for evidence in situations like this, we'd have quite the debacle on our hands.
It's suggested that Goku and Piccolo made quality gains. They had taken enough protein, got enough rest and drank plenty of juice.
Unweighted Goku and Popo are likely not more than 1.33-1.5x Tien's power at the 23rd Budokai.
The likelihood of Tien not surpassing Popo seems to be a bit more on the lower side to me. Tien is a monster and without a doubt, trained desperately everyday to improve his standing.
It's suggested that Goku and Piccolo made quality gains. They had taken enough protein, got enough rest and drank plenty of juice.
Unweighted Goku and Popo are likely not more than 1.33-1.5x Tien's power at the 23rd Budokai.
The likelihood of Tien not surpassing Popo seems to be a bit more on the lower side to me. Tien is a monster and without a doubt, trained desperately everyday to improve his standing.
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Captain Cadaver said:
When did that happen?
I see no choice but to have redcon with some levels of fighting in DBZ. As P123 says, Goku and Piccolo must have ignited a lot in those 5 years. The gaps between Goku and Piccolo (TB23) over Kamisama were tremendous, the gaps between Kamisama (TB23) over the Humans were gigantic. Despite all this, BoZ Goku is slightly more than twice as powerful as Humans on average.
It is best to have a redcon with the powers of Kamisama and Mr. Popo. Give an example with numbers:
Kamisama (TB23) = 120
Piccolo (TB23) = 290
Goku (TB23) = 292
Mr. Popo (BoZ) = 256
Kamisama (BoZ) = 288
One thing like that, would keep the Piccolo (TB23)> Kamisama (BoZ).
I have Mr. Popo> Tenshinhan, but it would be a very fought match.
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Popo being stronger seems like a nice theory, but when you recall the length of time and the situation, it starts to fall apart. If Piccolo was dead, I could see potential slacking being an issue. Tien's power was embarrassing compared to Piccolo's. Tien is a warrior. There's no way that sits right with him. Giving him 5 years to close the gap is like a layup.
There is no retcon. Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai is massively stronger than Kami. Piccolo is probably 4x stronger than Kami is.
There is no retcon. Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai is massively stronger than Kami. Piccolo is probably 4x stronger than Kami is.
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23rd Piccolo is 4x Kami.
BOZ Piccolo may be upwards of 8-10x Kami.
Kami is nothing. A severely injured Piccolo thinks he can defeat the humans and Kami with ease. Piccolo's injuries sustained make him appear to be way more damaged than Gohan was against Cell, and Gohan was less than half power there.
BOZ Piccolo may be upwards of 8-10x Kami.
Kami is nothing. A severely injured Piccolo thinks he can defeat the humans and Kami with ease. Piccolo's injuries sustained make him appear to be way more damaged than Gohan was against Cell, and Gohan was less than half power there.
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Dafuq? Popo handled the SSjin kids who the PL purist thought those kids can beat CG Goku as well. You marks are embarrassing.
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p123 said:
Why do you think Piccolo was more damaged than Gohan? Also, Gohan suffered shuki loss, he wasn't really less than half.
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The episode involving the Illusion Saiyans I believe. I could be completely wrong, seeing as how I only vaguely remember someone bringing it up on either Shinden Reborn or Infinity. I guess you could also chalk it up to the anime presenting Popo as far more powerful than he should be (eg. Popo VS Goten/Trunks).SIAD said:
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That's true, considering the combined battle power of him, Yamcha, Kuririn and Chaozu was 1,507. I guess it really was a case of Toei haxing Popo as per usual.
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Taking that stuff about their combined powers being 1,507, I think Tenshinhan would be ~500. Just anime BS though. Their combined power should be about 800.
On topic: Mr. Popo seemed to be having an easier time handling post Piccolo Daimao fight Goku than Tenshinhan with unweighted Goku's speed. Tenshinhan still had to do some good movements and was surprised at Goku keeping track of his movements. Popo seems more impressive imo, although I'd still not put Popo as high as Unweighted Goku (tooling Tenshinhan), honestly. That level was so superior to Tenshinhan that this latter even thought Goku was possessed. Popo being in the middle of Ten and unweighted suppressed Goku sounds good:
Goku (post piccolo battle) : 85
Tenshinhan : 100
Mr. Popo : 130~140
Goku unweighted : 160
That's Beginning of Z, and is pretty much certain Tenshinhan got stronger. However, the fact that they had yet to be trained by Kami-sama and Popo, similar to them being trained by Kaio-sama after the Saiyan's battle, tells me Tenshinhan didn't surpass either of them until the training. Right, training with someone isn't always indicative of being weaker than said person, seeing as how Kuririn still wanted to train with Roshi after the Freeza saga, although I'd think that's more times the case than not, considering Karin said back in the Piccolo Daimao Saga how he hadn't anything more to teach Goku since Goku was already > him. Unless you think Tenshinhan wasn't trained at all by Popo and only by Kami (in the manga he was seen staring at Kami, while Popo was dodging Kuririn), to which I'd say "fuck you".
On topic: Mr. Popo seemed to be having an easier time handling post Piccolo Daimao fight Goku than Tenshinhan with unweighted Goku's speed. Tenshinhan still had to do some good movements and was surprised at Goku keeping track of his movements. Popo seems more impressive imo, although I'd still not put Popo as high as Unweighted Goku (tooling Tenshinhan), honestly. That level was so superior to Tenshinhan that this latter even thought Goku was possessed. Popo being in the middle of Ten and unweighted suppressed Goku sounds good:
Goku (post piccolo battle) : 85
Tenshinhan : 100
Mr. Popo : 130~140
Goku unweighted : 160
That's Beginning of Z, and is pretty much certain Tenshinhan got stronger. However, the fact that they had yet to be trained by Kami-sama and Popo, similar to them being trained by Kaio-sama after the Saiyan's battle, tells me Tenshinhan didn't surpass either of them until the training. Right, training with someone isn't always indicative of being weaker than said person, seeing as how Kuririn still wanted to train with Roshi after the Freeza saga, although I'd think that's more times the case than not, considering Karin said back in the Piccolo Daimao Saga how he hadn't anything more to teach Goku since Goku was already > him. Unless you think Tenshinhan wasn't trained at all by Popo and only by Kami (in the manga he was seen staring at Kami, while Popo was dodging Kuririn), to which I'd say "fuck you".
