Can a 100x multiplier work for SSJ?

[Hector]

If we apply the Saiyan Saga KHH 2.25x multiplier (supposing we accept 416 was Goku's full base power against Raditz) to his fight against Freeza.

Goku: 1
-20x kaioken: 20
-20x kaioken KHH: 45
-SSJ: 100

Freeza
-50%: 47.5
-100%: 95

 

[Kyo]

It has to be assumed that Freeza was caught off-guard by KKx20 hand-to-hand for no reason, despite the fact that its power is just as worthless to him as KKx10 under this idea.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Yeah the 100x multiplier makes KKx20 completely worthless to Freeza which doesn’t seem to be the case.

Remember, Vegeta only has an amp around 1.33x and KKx3 Goku could not overwhelm him.

That’s clear evidence KK Kamehamehas either produce zero amp or a very minimal amp.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

X50 fits perfectly

Kkx10 Goku: 10
Kkx20 Goku: 20
Kamehameha Kkx20 Goku: 21
50% Freeza: 22.5
70% Freeza: 31.5
100% Freeza: 45
SSj Goku: 50

 

[FeatsofPower]

Kamehameha Kkx20 Goku: 21
50% Freeza: 22.5

How strong do you have Raditz?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

How strong do you have Raditz?

Hard to tell as I don't take him much into account, but 1.200 sounds fair.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

No because Toriyama himself said it’s 50x

 

[Kyo]

Toriyama can gargle my nuts tbqh

 

[Dagon]

Just have KHH add to Kaio-Ken instead and 50x can work.

Goku: 3,000,000
~KKx20: 60,000,000
~KKX20 KHH: 67,500,000
~SSJ: 150,000,000

Freeza:
~50%: 60,000,000
~100%: 120,000,000

Seems like a small effect here but later on as they get better at ki amp it can change to better reflect the plot down the line. Though there's very few moments where that would even need to be the case.

 

[FeatsofPower]

~KKX20 KHH: 67,500,000

Freeza:
~50%: 60,000,000

How is Freeza able to stop the KHH if he’s weaker?

 

[Father]

Even if you bump Freeza up to 70%
The numbers are hard to work with.

Freeza palming the KKX20 KKH should
be similar to Raditz stopping Gokus KKH
in terms of gap at least.

 

[Dagon]

How is Freeza able to stop the KHH if he’s weaker?

It's close enough that it wouldn't kill him. He was left scuffed and dirtied by it.

Even if you bump Freeza up to 70%
The numbers are hard to work with.

Freeza palming the KKX20 KKH should
be similar to Raditz stopping Gokus KKH
in terms of gap at least.

Freeza visibly showed more effort than Raditz.

 

[Father]

It's close enough that it wouldn't kill him. He was left scuffed and dirtied by it.



Freeza visibly showed more effort than Raditz.

Maybe, but both examples show that the
character needed to be stronger to cancel
the attack out with their palm.
I don’t see that happening if KKH is>Freeza.
Hell he wasn’t even pushed back by it.

Also, the area of affect for the KKX20 KKH
was much larger than the one used in Raditz,
which could explain why Raditz seems less
damaged than Freeza.

 

[FeatsofPower]

It's close enough that it wouldn't kill him. He was left scuffed and dirtied by it.

Freeza sends a generic blast at Goku that is mostly likely unamped and it sends Goku flying.

Why did Freeza's blast during their warm up, send Goku flying, force him to be pushed back to the rocks and Goku had to redirect it's path because he was being overwhelmed?

There is no way Freeza can dead stop a blast above him. That doesn't make sense.

 

[Dagon]

Freeza sends a generic blast at Goku that is mostly likely unamped and it sends Goku flying.

Why did Freeza's blast during their warm up, send Goku flying, force him to be pushed back to the rocks and Goku had to redirect it's path because he was being overwhelmed?

There is no way Freeza can dead stop a blast above him. That doesn't make sense.

Without knowing how strong that blast is you're just working off of an assumption.

The last statement is quite the claim. I guess Freeza would be blown away by a blast of 60,000,001.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Without knowing how strong that blast is you're just working off of an assumption.

It's a generic, basic ki blast. How strong do you think it is? Above Freeza or below Freeza?

The last statement is quite the claim. I guess Freeza would be blown away by a blast of 60,000,001.

Does the blast have the speed and power that rival the opponent? Is it significantly weaker, or significantly stronger? The way the blast interacts with the opponents is based on how those questions are answered.

Fighter 100
Blast 90

One could expect the Fighter to struggle with the blast, but the fighter is probably capable of mitigating it.

Fighter 100
Blast 100

Should be quite the struggle here.

Fighter 100
Blast 110

Fighter can put up a fight against the blast but will probably be overwhelmed.

Your example would put the blast within the margins of the second option/

 

[Dagon]

It's a generic, basic ki blast. How strong do you think it is? Above Freeza or below Freeza?


Does the blast have the speed and power that rival the opponent? Is it significantly weaker, or significantly stronger? The way the blast interacts with the opponents is based on how those questions are answered.

Fighter 100
Blast 90

One could expect the Fighter to struggle with the blast, but the fighter is probably capable of mitigating it.

Fighter 100
Blast 100

Should be quite the struggle here.

Fighter 100
Blast 110

Fighter can put up a fight against the blast but will probably be overwhelmed.

Your example would put the blast within the margins of the second option/

It's as strong as needed to make sense of the scene.

I think 12.5% gap is within the margin that it could go either way between the fighters, just not 50/50 odds.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I think 12.5% gap is within the margin that it could go either way between the fighters, just not 50/50 odds.

When Goku had a 12% disadvantage against Vegeta, he considered himself completely helpless and decided he had no other choice but to risk his life with the Kkx3 knowing he could destroy his body.

A 12% advantage is a MONUMENTAL advantage in the world of Dragonball.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think Freeza was alright because of his reserves. He's about twice as strong as that blast, even if he's not using it right now it gotta matter something for his durability, you know? I mean, why else would Goku say "He's not bluffing about being 50%!" because of that?

So the issue here is Freeza stopping the blast. He holds it with one hand, but the explosion is all over him. Raditz could at least contain the explosion somehow.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I think Freeza was alright because of his reserves.

Where is it ever indicated reserves help out in this way? If you are suppressed to 0 are you saying an attack of 100 can't kill a 1,000 power level fighter? Isn't there a risk of being suppressed so low?

I mean, why else would Goku say "He's not bluffing about being 50%!" because of that?

This is an interesting pathway to think, but don't you assume Freeza exceeded 50% to counter the blast?

Why is Freeza's hands burnt if his reserves increase his durability so much Why did Freeza think he could have died?

So the issue here is Freeza stopping the blast. He holds it with one hand, but the explosion is all over him. Raditz could at least contain the explosion somehow.

Exactly my point.

So Raditz > Kamehameha by a greater margin than Freeza > Kamehameha.