Cell's Speed Against Gohan

[t0sh]

Cell told Gohan that he only need increase his speed, not power, to dominate him. The entire fight displayed this clearly. So it's totally implied that Cell used the same power on Gohan as he did on Goku but only need a slight speed increase to tag Gohan. How big of a difference is it between Cell & Goku? Well it's certainly enough to cover the gap between Goku & Gohan and then some, so it's implied even further that Cell was, in all likely-hood, fighting with 20-25% greater power then Goku. However just because Cell is obviously faster then Goku, doesn't mean there has to be a specific [large] gap between the two. Remember, DBZ is absolutely, never, ever linear when it comes to things like this. It doesn't even get the strands of hair in SSJin2 correct and you expect Akira Toriyama to mathematically [regarding power] portray a fight between two specific characters to a degree in which reflects the gap between them? Anyways, I'll post evidence of what I'm trying to say:

For a better example of what I'm trying to say, look unto the Ginyu vs Goku fight, or other areas.

. Burta [#FR1#BUT]
Chapter: 273 (DBZ 79), P5.1
Context: Vegeta tried to throw a dragonball so far away that the Ginyu Special-Squad wouldn’t be able to find it, but Burta caught it.
Ginyu: “Ahhh, I get it… Throw them so far that we won’t be able to get them, eh? Too bad Burta here is the fastest in the universe!â€￾

Burtur > Ginyu in regards to speed, but it doesn't necessarily mean Burtur is greater then Ginyu in power just because he is faster.

Chapter: 287 (DBZ 93), P2.2
Context: after Ginyu steals Goku’s body
Ginyu: “Fuhahahaha…! This body’s even faster!â€￾

Ginyu further confirms Goku's body is faster then his own, despite being 33% greater in power then Goku.

Further confirmation that power level does not necessarily dictate speed.

If you need more I will use Herms.

Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P3.5.
Piccolo: “Absolutely incredible power! It’s even greater than Cell’s…! Un-unbelievable…!“

Trunk's power surpasses Cells, but it doesn't mean he's faster. This logic obviously works vice versa.

Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P1.3, P2.1-3
Trunks: “What you’re about to see now…is my true power!!!â€￾
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…â€￾

387 (DBZ 193), P14.1-4
Context: Trunks can't hit Cell in his Grade III form
Trunks: “Im-impossible…! This is impossible…! Why can’t I hit him…?!â€￾
Cell: “You’re such a greenhorn…So you didn’t even realize this would happen?...You said you’d show me your true power, but to think that you’d just use a transformation that relies even more on power…This sort of transformation is simple enough…â€￾

Chapter: 388 (DBZ 194), P1.3
Cell: “Nothing can come from this sort of transformation that only powers you up…You’re an idiot…â€￾

This Cell vs Goku fight doesn't reflect a power gap at all, and this is where people get confused. Cell can be faster then Goku (to a degree, obviously excluding IT), but it doesn't mean he is more powerful. He is, however he suppressing his full potential during this speed, speed included. However on an equal playing-field he is faster then Goku during this period.

Summarily, it doesn't really discredit the Daiz numbers by any means or reflect any sort of power gap. Cell obviously hints that he increased his speed under the knowledge Goku can move at instantaneous speeds.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Even he increase his speed he can't damage Gohan unlike he did to Goku.

 

[t0sh]

Counter argument to anybody who says power follows:

AK said that Ki is made up of different components, so with Ki being the pushing factor in regards to power and speed, the two do not follow each other and this is the reason why a low power can be faster then a higher power and vice versa. Further-more, it has nothing to do with 'who has more examples', it's not really a theme Akira Toriyama would intentionally focus on just to get a point across. He did however provide us with examples and reasoning. Cell made it clear that he amplified his speed against Goku, but kept his power stationary. Against Gohan he had to increase his speed even further. It says nothing of power.

This shows that the gap between Goku and Gohan isn't as big as people make it ought to be. Also Gohan couldn't hurt Cell and vice-versa. Gohan is shown to be equals with Cell.

 

[Lord Brofist]

But it is as big. Whatever that gap may be can be anyone's determination I suppose.

Cell had such an advantage over Goku that he was one to two steps a head of him and even after taking on huge damage from the Kamehameha and the fight, was willing to have Goku take a Senzu just to make things more interesting.

Meanwhile, his fight against Gohan (Whom he admits is stronger than Goku) ends with firstly Gohan dodging every last one of his attacks at the start and then when using his full speed, his proceeding beatdown on Gohan literally didn't take away any ki from Gohan.

Yes, a guy who was 1-2 steps a head of Goku can't even put real hurt on SSJ Kid Gohan.

 

[Son Gokū]

He was fast, Gohan was faster.
Let me know if you have anymore questions. ^_^

 

[Lord Brofist]

But itisn't. Cell's literally not doing any damage whatsoever on Gohan. He can't even touch him the first time around. Cell literally has to use his full speed to finally catch Gohan and despite beating on him, he doesn't do a single bit of damage to him.

That shows a remarkable difference between Gohan and Goku. It shows that Gohan, without defending himself and playing defensively the entire fight can still handle the assault Cell gave on him.

 

[t0sh]

It's not like Gohan can do damage on Cell either. As I have said. Cell only increases his speed. This means that Gohan is just extremely fast and that he would have a bit more of a gap than Cell before bringing his speed up. The max gap is 85%. It would look a lot like Goku Kaio-Ken X2 vs Vegeta IMO

 

[Lord Brofist]

Considering Gohan was stated to be stronger than Goku who was damaging Cell, I'd say yes he can. In fact his one little kick actually knocked Cell right down and drew blood.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Not to mention Gohan didn't fight back much.

 

[Super Saiyan Overlord1007]

I don't think Cell had a huge edge over Goku. I think we all or the majority of us can agree that Cell didn't necessarily power up to fight Gohan but just raised his speed so he could catch him and even then he couldn't keep down as he keeps getting up unscathed from Cell's attacks, but Gohan didn't really fight back. If he did I think the fight would've gone differently seeing as he was able to floor Cell with one kick and draw blood something Goku struggled to do in his fight with Cell. I put a considerable difference between Gohan and Goku. I think x1.25 difference is fair enough for Gohan and Goku, while I put Cell inbetween the two.

Gohan: 125
Cell: 112-115
Goku: 100

 

[t0sh]

My number show
Goku: 100
Cell: 112.5
Gohan: 120
That's really pushing it

 

[FutureProtagonist]

That is pushing it, but probably not the way you meant.

 

[Dioxide]

Given how Cell only mentions a speed increase, that is all that should've increased until we're indicated otherwise.

 

[Whipedkillsmiled]

Well it's also claimed a bunch of times that speed works with strength
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Dragon-Ball/249?id=21249#7
Vegeta says with his strength his speed has increased aswell, now we have to ask ourselvesa question...Can the same be done vice versa? To which I don't know. However it's valid to assume so.
Not to mention in the fight against cell after powering up to max cell seemed to be even faster.
Goku VS Ginyu we have to consider that Goku had been doing training that had great advantage on his speed. 100x gravity where the best Ginyu has probably ever done is 10x
Now if what Vegeta said is true and with strength increases speed. Then we can say when you train in normal circumstances it does but this one was totally different Goku had adjusted to gravity 100x the one he was suppose to fight in. It's obvious he's be faster than Ginyu.
Also Goku is someone who just torn down the entire Ginyu force Ginyu should know how fast burter is if he can understand Goku beating the Ginyu force with ease then he can assume he's faster than bhutta. If bhutta was really faster than Ginyu he may aswell have not made that comment about "He's Even Faster Than Me". So Ginyu's comment on bhutta's speed could be in admiration of his crew after all he said fastest in the "universe" even though he should know full well even Frieza s faster.
In conclusion Goku's training gave him a level of speed higher than opponents stronger than him because his training was adjusted to the level of gravity no one at that point had achieved. And with Vegeta's comment we can assume if we like that cell's power slightly increased.

 

[Dioxide]

Cell makes no mention of a Ki increase and merely mentions how he would only increase his speed. The power Cell used to defeat Goku was the same power that Cell said Gohan could not defeat, and the difference in power between Cell and Goku is not vastly different.

 

[Whipedkillsmiled]

Well, maybe it was assumed to be obvious and not mention worthy.
Not everything is mentioned sometimes it's up to you to decide if that happened or not.
Base Gotenks in the ROSAT was only noted to have increased ki by Piccolo that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't increase in speed at all.

 

[POOHEAD189]

I agree with Whipped. Just because he only mentions speed, or just because ANYONE only mentions speed, doesn't mean power does not increase as well. Burter was known for his speed, and Trunks was established to be a slow but powerful combatant once he went USSJ, so those were complete exceptions. And all the other times I really don't see speed being completely separate from strength. Other than Tien's speed against Goku perhaps, seeing as they were in the same fight and both of their punches seemed to have the same effect before and after the speed increase.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Actually, if the strength increased, speed is also increased. If the speed increased then power does not increased.

 

[Whipedkillsmiled]

No necessary rule.
If you were to train mainly on speed it's not like your power would remain the same.

 

[Dioxide]

Cell believes the power he used against Goku is enough to defeat Gohan. After fighting Gohan a bit, he merely compliments Gohan's speed and states he would go all out in speed. Seems very clear to me what increased.