Cell's speed increase

[ahill1]

Most logical answer to me is that Cell's power and he just wasn't doing full effort.

Goku: 100
Cell: 125 but effort-wise is 110
Gohan: 125

Cell does his full speed of 125, but his strength doesn't increase. It's like being hit really fast with a pillow. I think he only went full strength the next chapter, probably when Gohan knocked his ass on the floor.

This one's also very possible.

 

[ahill1]

I also always found a little weird that Cell thought he had killed Gohan with that attack when using the same level he fought Goku. I mean, he implied pretty much Gohan is > Goku by saying Goku wasn't totally bluffing... But then how come he thinks he can kill Gohan in an instant when that power wasn't able to kill Goku easily much less in an instant? Unless he underestimated Gohan's toughness even more --- like, Gohan's power registered as higher, but Cell just didn't think he was tough and well built up to take attacks the way Goku would despite having a bigger chi. Still weird though.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell has got to be the dumbest villain ever. How does he sense Gohan’s Ki and tries twice attacking him without enough power. Toriyama isn’t a genius, this is just really dumb writing.

 

[ahill1]

Cell's chi sense is off many times. He sensed Super Vegeta and thought his FP would be plenty. Same for SSJ2 Gohan. With SSJ2 Gohan I at least give it the benefit of the doubt for Cell more like being in denial as his demeanor when sensing Gohan losing it screams already more like "damn, maybe I screwed up things"... But yeah, he isn't that reliable. I mean, I think many aren't... Chi is treated some times inconsistently due to PIS. And sometimes it has a very high accuracy. It's something that may make the story boring since knowing the outcome even before the battle would kill the suspense, so out of universe Toriyama needs to reduce those abilities to an inconsistent level to maintain the suspense.

 

[SIAD]

Cell's chi sense is off many times. He sensed Super Vegeta and thought his FP would be plenty. Same for SSJ2 Gohan. With SSJ2 Gohan I at least give it the benefit of the doubt for Cell more like being in denial as his demeanor when sensing Gohan losing it screams already more like "damn, maybe I screwed up things"... But yeah, he isn't that reliable. I mean, I think many aren't... Chi is treated some times inconsistently due to PIS. And sometimes it has a very high accuracy. It's something that may make the story boring since knowing the outcome even before the battle would kill the suspense, so out of universe Toriyama needs to reduce those abilities to an inconsistent level to maintain the suspense.

That's very true.

 

[SSJ2]

Ah alright. Well, Goku is counting on Gohan's rage to beat Cell; he changes his tune when Piccolo makes him realize that it probably won't work that way.

Yes, of course he is, but he was still confident in Gohan being able to put up a fight when nobody else was.

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P12.6-7
Context: after Cell beats up on Gohan
Goku: “Don’t panic, Piccolo. Gohan’s ki hasn’t fallen one bit, has it?”
Kuririn: “Ah…It-it’s true…!”

Yet the situation became dire enough that Goku was going to change his plan and get involved again...

 

[Power Level Guy]

The plan was never for Gohan's regular power to win. He gave Cell the sensu for a reason.

 

[SSJ2]

Also in regards to Gohan vs Cell, Gohan even thought Cell was holding back, not just Goku. Which should be direct admission that the Ki level Cell used against Goku was far surpassed by Gohan, even if Cell was holding back his speed.

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P6.5, P7.1-6
Context: after Goku asks Gohan to be the next one to fight Cell
Piccolo: “Don’t talk crazy, Goku! There’s no way he’d be able to fight! It’s true that he’s raised his abilities so much that he’s unrecognizable, but his opponent is Cell, who even you were no match for!”
Goku: “Piccolo, Gohan has more unbelievable power than we think. Think about it. He’s fought the same as everyone since he was a little squirt…When I was about his age, I wasn’t anything special.”
Kuririn: “B-but even if he’s become a Super Saiyan…Th-this is so quick…”
Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”
Gohan: “N-no, I didn’t think so…But neither of you were fighting all-out, right…!?”
Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”

So we have this:

Goku < Cell (withheld speed) </< Cell vs Goku/Gohan (ki level) </< Gohan

So we are once again left with the question as to how Cell suddenly became a threat to Gohan if he didn't level up further.

 

[Kyo]

Alright, that makes sense. Then I'll go with Cell powering up sometime before he bear hugs Gohan.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Damn, this turned out to be a major topic. My goodness. This is some detailed stuff going on here. I'm watching the anime now, I'm up to Imperfect Cell, so when I do get to the Cell Games, I am going to read this thread thoroughly and see what I can come up with.

I've always held the idea that Cell is a bit weaker than Gohan, perhaps I'll be forced to change my mind here.

I still think Gohan not wanting to fight is what's truly limiting him here, I don't think his power is the issue, it's his will to fight. But I will look through this thread with fresh eyes soon.

 

[ahill1]

Gohan feeling Goku was holding back might not tell much imo asmhe was expecting Goku to be >>> him. If Goku ends up below him by nay amount, that will already seem weird and thought to be holding back by Gohan... He believes his father is special... And so he does Cell. Idk if keep up means necessarily defeat, but yeah, I think it implies Cell wouldn't be a threat st that level. But I think Goku knew already there Gohan needed his enraged power to defeat Cell. It's not like he commented on powered up Cell ending up > what he expected. I think both knew Cell had good reserves, Gohan realized later though he strongly suspected it that the enraged level would be the only means. As soon as Cell attacked him and he ca,e unharmed, the first thing Gohan said was that he knows what his father is saying --- and already talks about his enraged powers. So I get the impression they knew Cell was holding back considerably and whatever advantage MSSJ Gohan had was just low to cover that. And yeah, since Cell's attack did no harm, and Cell later on wanted Gohan to be enraged, as well as kicking him away without much effort later, I think as soon as Gohan came unharmed, Cell brought his power and hitting force up to his all out speed level. May have happened during the bear hug, but I think right after the real speed attack works well too...

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell's chi sense is off many times. He sensed Super Vegeta and thought his FP would be plenty. Same for SSJ2 Gohan. With SSJ2 Gohan I at least give it the benefit of the doubt for Cell more like being in denial as his demeanor when sensing Gohan losing it screams already more like "damn, maybe I screwed up things"... But yeah, he isn't that reliable. I mean, I think many aren't... Chi is treated some times inconsistently due to PIS. And sometimes it has a very high accuracy. It's something that may make the story boring since knowing the outcome even before the battle would kill the suspense, so out of universe Toriyama needs to reduce those abilities to an inconsistent level to maintain the suspense.

That’s why I don’t think SPC challenging Gohan means they’re rivals. I do think they’re close, but for other reasons.

@SSJ2 I don’t think that means anything. Gohan doesn’t have to be above Goku and Cell to think they’re holding back, they could be equals.