Correcting the Manga's Worst Offenses

[p123]

From a power level point of view, I will go into some of the wrongs I saw in the manga. I'd like to tone down a lot of what I saw, not all situations though.

Dragonball

1) The humans power increase catching them up to Piccolo Daimao levels. This makes no sense from a story standpoint when it was clear that King Piccolo is different than any of the humans. The human level is more or less maxed out around the 22nd Budokai and this should stay this way unless we come up with some really good bullshit. Like Kaioken or something.

2) Piccolo and Goku's rate of improvement in training for the 23rd Budokai. Probably not necessary for such a large gap, but this might be predetermined by Kami/Popo vs Goku. I would have to look into that a bit more.

3) The Namek Saga zenkais. They just got out of hand. Goku going to 90K is probably ok, but that massive jump after that, no. I would have to rework the saga. Freeza doesn't need to be this overbearing.

4) Kaioken 20x forces Super Saiyan to be too high. I'd reduce Kaioken to 10x and Super Saiyan to 20 or 25x if possible. This sets up the rest of the manga more reasonably.

5) Piccolo's training gains on Kaio's planet and for Android Saga training.

6) Gotenks bullshit haxes. He needs to be able to be toned down. All he needs is forms added on top of his already massive Super Saiyan power.


Wow, the list is shorter than I thought. 6x changes ain't bad.

 

[ahill1]

I honestly pay no attention to those huge increases given to beings whose potential shouldn't logically hit such plateau. Sure, it's still something questionable, but if there're things implying they got there, then so be it.

I'd rather fix those situations where the statements lead to not-so-set-in-stone power placements for some characters. For example, I'd have Freeza stating he increased his overall effort against Vegeta, not just his speed, so we could have a ''Vegeta ~ initial Freeza" set in stone placement, and it wouldn't give opportunity for those people who like to argue Vegeta was just delusional at that time due to thinking he was a SSJ.

Similarly, I'd also have Cell stating he'd increase his overall power against SSJ Gohan, not just his speed, therein we could have a more comfortable gap between father and son at the Cell Games, in which even the level Cell used against Goku could be placed significantly below Gohan. That way, we could have a more comfortable set of gaps in the Boo saga, in which Vegeta could have been placed significantly ahead Cell Games Goku, but still a step below Cell Games Gohan without having to assign a rage boost for the latter while in SSJ2, which is frankly generally done so we don't have to exaggerate the gap between father and son seven years ago.

Due to this, those "speed-only" increase statements become a bit problematic, and an increase in the overall effort could solve the problems smoothly.

I don't have a problem with your issues because they aren't problems that lead to a further debate on such matters... they are things already established and just mean that the numbers would be that big, which I have no problem with.

 

[ahill1]

Trunks' statement right after the embarassing beatdown by the present androids would be something I'd like to change. Because it contradicts his earlier statements, which flat out imply he was just not on the androids' level. So maybe fix those earlier statements to something that would express his still powerlessness but not going as far as to say he is still no match, or fix his later statement to something like "in comparison to my performance against the androids of this era, the one I had in my future wasn't so bad in retrospect".

Similarly, I'd also write off the implications of [androids saga] Vegeta being significantly above future Trunks from the same saga... why? Because Tenshinhan simply stated the three SSJs aren't that different from each other, which is a direct statement about Trunks not being significantly weaker than his father.

Piccolo merely making mention of Vegeta's stamina as a damning factor on his fight against #18 would be also something I'd change. It implies Vegeta was close to #18 in everything minus stamina, which we know isn't true later on due to some heavy implications which place the SSJs still not on the androids' league.

So, like you can see, my problem lies more on things that could go both ways, on things that generally contradict each other.

 

[p123]

Tien also shouldn't be able to do shit to Semi Cell or Buu. That's ridiculous. The humans should have essentially no role after Piccolo Daimao.

 

[SSJ2]

Omit Gotenks-Boo's statement acting like taking down Tenshinhan is a big deal. (Not that I think this is a "big offence")

 

[p123]

Damn. Damn near cleaned up the whole manga with 7 little changes. Great!

 

[SSJ2]

For your #5, I don't mind Piccolo's 3 year gains all that much. He was sparring with Super Saiyan Goku after all. His gains on the 6 days on Kaio's planet are among the worst in the manga, however.

 

[p123]

I think the community had a legit gripe with Piccolo Androids for over 20 years for good reason. It's clear that there are three powers supposed to be on this tier. Freeza and his kin, Androids and Super Saiyans. Piccolo being Super Saiyan level because of "training" is laughable.

Namek level should be maxed out around 50k or something like that. A once in a lifetime power maybe a bit higher, but after that, meh... Super Saiyan is supposed to mean something in this universe. That's the overall point.

 

[Victorious]

Piccolo is the Demon king, half the personality of the most gifted Namek ever (Kamiccolo) and had also assimilated Nail...the most powerful warrior Namekian on Namek still alive. So Piccolo being a beast in the Android saga was cool with me as a Piccolo fan. It was 4 years and 260 days after The Freeza arc anyway.

 

[p123]

I can't say I agree. Piccolo is a beast don't get me wrong. But he doesn't have a transformation like Super Saiyan. Piccolo needed Nail just to let him keep up with the Base Saiyans crazy zenkais. The only way he closes the gap on Super Saiyan would be Kami.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think Piccolo being SSJ tier all of the sudden is ok. He needed that to be relevant. Otherwise he would be as out of place as Gohan: He's not an earthling, but he's pointless as fuck.

 

[SSJ2]

I'd rather see them hax Piccolo after the 3 years than turn him into irrelevant human tier trash tbh

 

[Papasmurf]

*zarbon tier trash

 

[SSJ2]

You mean Gold Zarbon?

 

[Papasmurf]

They're garbage fighters. Zarbon hasn't been pushed to transform in forever, so he's most likely did nothing but beat up on weaker guys for almost 30 yrs. Dodoria is just a fat pink piece of shit.

Whatchu say, muthafucka? The power of Super Saiyan Dodoria is unfathomable, and the reason why Freeza said Ginyu wasn't surpassed until he fought Goku (Ginyu took his body by accident once and returned it out of undying respect).

In fact, the very reason Vegeta ambushed Dodo while he was in base to knock him into the water was because he knew all legendary Super Saiyans were weak against water (like Bio-Broly). Dodoria then fed him a cover story framing Freeza for the destruction of the Saiyan planet to buy time until he could recover, but in truth we know who was truly responsible:

^do you see? SSjin Dodo so boss he can blow up planets with his mind

 

[Victorious]

Regarding Android arc Piccolo. Well he is still weaker than all 3 current SSJs..and a healthy Goku and Vegeta should be able to take him down convincingly. But yes he's much beyond the previous seen SSJs.

How about Roshi busting the moon? That's a pretty big offense. Considering FP prime Piccolo Daimao could only create like atomic bomb level blasts.

 

[p123]

Piccolo has no business being anywhere near Freeza.

 

[Victorious]

Initially watching the series, I never really got the sense Gotenks was all that strong. Most of his power rests upon events and statements where gags occurred. He never seemed so powerful. Its only when u take the statements literally and do battle power lists does he end up so ridiculously high.

 

[Pyro]

It's what you do with the entire manga.

 

[p123]

Goku being so weak did seem rather ridiculous. Gotenks/Gohan/Super Buu whole thing should have never been included. At least not SSJ3 Gotenks. It's too much... They should have let Goku handle it from the get go with his new form and found a new one to close it out.