Damage Levels (Goku vs Piccolo Junior)

[p123]

Piccolo is extremely damaged and still proclaims he can defeat Kami and the humans without any issue. Instead of Kami whooping his butt, Kami opts for suicide. This seems to back up Piccolo's claim. Goku, who is literally in the dirt, barely able to move, still has the power necessary to KO Piccolo. He's gotta be somewhere near Piccolo's level. This is madness. A guy who can't even move, is outrageously superior to the others, even Kami? Damn...

Anyone care to show how this could work numerically? There are many levels shown in the Piccolo vs Goku fight at the 23rd Budokai.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Goku won with an off guard attack, launching his body like a homing missile on Piccolo's solar plexus (super weak spot).
That said, we can have Piccolo Jr at 70% of his full power, so that we can keep Kami reasonably high (60% of the finalists'
maxes).

 

[p123]

Sure, but even at 50% of Piccolo's ki, that off guard attack doesn't work. Goku's ki power is probably still stronger than Kami's.

Piccolo Jr looks pretty worse for wear as well. He looks beat the fuck up mate.

Compare him to Majin Vegeta/Goku's damaged selves...

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

http://www.dbzeta.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12862#p320231

Mind you that the "Your punches aren't half as good" is a Vizisim. According to Herms, Goku only calls his punches dull:
Chapter: 189, P1.3, P2.1
Context: Goku and Piccolo have been fighting a long time
Piccolo: “Even you are finally starting to show signs of fatigue.”
Goku: “You’re one to talk. Your punches are getting dull…”

I think it goes down like this:
Goku/Piccolo: 100
~ Winded up: 90
~ Post Regen Piccolo: 67.5
~ Post Explosion Piccolo: 45
~ Post beatdown Piccolo: 30
Crippled Goku: 33
Kami: 15

 

[p123]

Jesus Christ. Kami is 15% of Piccolo? How the hell did Kami catch his punch?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Crippled Goku is not above Kami. When Crippled Goku claimed he could still win, the gang was like:
'Are you nuts? You can't win anything in your condition'. Goku won because he had kept his ability
to fly hidden till the end of the fight and caught Piccolo off guard with an attack at the solar plexus.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Jesus Christ. Kami is 15% of Piccolo? How the hell did Kami catch his punch?

Because of skill

Seriously, Kami catching the punch is a plothole no matter how you look at it. Right after that Piccolo said he could take God and 100 of the Z Fighters.

 

[p123]

Kami could be 66% of Piccolo and that would satisfy the claim. Here's what is suggested to us...

Goku W/ Kami > Goku ~ Piccolo >>> Kami W/ Humans > Kami

Kami would have turned the tide if he helped Goku, that's what you guys are missing. Kami is still seen as useful against Piccolo, whereas Piccolo was not seen as useful to Vegeta against True Form Freeza.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gohan and the earthlings were supposed to be useful against the Androids. If your opponent is dead even with you, anyone who can create a distraction can turn the tides.

 

[p123]

And they were useful. Gohan saved Piccolo and Yamcha was a great taxi driver for Goku's half dead body.

What I'm talking about here is in terms of Vegeta's standards in the Freeza Saga.

1) Gohan/Krillen were useful vs 1st Form Freeza
2) Gohan/Piccolo were not useful against Initial True Form Freeza


This is the standard I'm talking about...

I think Kami could very well be a Ginyu/Jeice vs Goku situation.

 

[Castiel]

Derailing the conversation to bring up another point: what do you think about Tenshinhan trying to jump in to help Goku against giant Piccolo?

 

[p123]

What do you think?

 

[Animelover5487]

Derailing the conversation to bring up another point: what do you think about Tenshinhan trying to jump in to help Goku against giant Piccolo?

Desperation. Tenshinhan also jumped in when #17 and 18 easily defeated SSJ Vegeta and Trunks.

 

[p123]

Alright, back on topic. I am finally addressing this issue...

1) Goku does not show any fatigue until after Kami blocks the punch.
2) Piccolo getting hit with that blast definitely did some damage, then regeneration on top of it.

Goku/Piccolo 100
Goku/Piccolo (Post Kami) 90
Piccolo (Post Hit with Own Blast) 80
Piccolo Taking A Beating

Well, I think Piccolo being 2x Kami is fair to say.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

What about Goku though? He lost every single limb and had a whole on his chest. I think you should work Piccolo's power loss around Goku's as the later was still stronger than the former.

 

[p123]

Goku was just fighting evenly with Piccolo a few panels before. Goku all jakked up is still strong as shit I bet...

Goku/Piccolo Full Power 300
Damaged Piccolo 200
Kami 150

That's what I'm rolling with now.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But getting crippled is a huge loss though. Dunno if anything lower than 2x can fit here.

 

[p123]

I agree. 2x can comfortably fit it, while 1.5x difference is too tight.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Goku/Piccolo: 100
Goku/Piccolo (Starting to tire): 90
Piccolo (Post regen): 75
Piccolo (Post explosion): 60-66
Goku (Limbless)/Piccolo (Post beatdown): 50
Kami: 33-40