Damaged Levels Cell/Goku

[Natasha Romanoff]

Yes, but he has ears. He can hear what Cell is saying.

Still doesn't hold. He is just knowing that Goku's chances can slightly increase if he do that, not randomly estimating or knowing about a portion of a power he's not emitting. Specially when he plan to attack Cell at the moment Goku is given a senzu.

You're quite uncapable today.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Still doesn't hold. He is just knowing that Goku's chances can slightly increase if he do that, not randomly estimating or knowing about a portion of a power he's not emitting. Specially when he plan to attack Cell at the moment Goku is given a senzu.

Full Power Goku can easily defeat Current Cell.

 

[SSJ2]

Goku knew Cell had more ki in reserve but he also stated that Cell's ki had dropped significantly as well. If I had to guess:

Cell (vs Goku): 110
Goku: 100
Cell (fatigued): 90
Goku (fatigued): 80
Vegeta: ~70

But of course Goku knew that a senzu bean would be futile as Cell could probably still reach close to his full power in that state.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Goku knew Cell had more ki in reserve but he also stated that Cell's ki had dropped significantly as well. If I had to guess:

Cell (vs Goku): 110
Goku: 100
Cell (fatigued): 90
Goku (fatigued): 80
Vegeta: ~70

But of course Goku knew that a senzu bean would be futile as Cell could probably still reach close to his full power in that state.

I don't think Cell rivals FP Goku, Goku's power has fallen off too far and he's rivaling Cell. I think it's more like this...

Cell 110
Goku 100
Cell 82.5
Goku 80
Vegeta 60

Something like that. Cell shouldn't be able to touch FP Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't think Cell rivals FP Goku, Goku's power has fallen off too far and he's rivaling Cell. I think it's more like this...

Cell 110
Goku 100
Cell 82.5
Goku 80
Vegeta 60

Something like that. Cell shouldn't be able to touch FP Goku.

I dunno, it just seems odd for Cell's power to have dropped more than Goku's when he was one or two steps ahead of Goku.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Full Power Goku can easily defeat Current Cell.

According to who? You?

 

[Power Level Guy]

I dunno, it just seems odd for Cell's power to have dropped more than Goku's when he was one or two steps ahead of Goku.

He's no longer one or two steps ahead of Goku Post Kamehameha. Cell dropped more because he got his head torn off by a Kamehameha, Goku just used it. Cell got damaged a bit more than Goku got drained.

According to who? You?

I mean, who else would it be? I am the one bringing up the point, aren't I?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Cell (vs Goku): 110
Goku: 100
Cell (fatigued): 90
Goku (fatigued): 80

This is a better and more logical approach, hadn't think about it.

Cell doesn't have any problem fighting Goku in regular conditions & Trunks is willing for all of them to attack when Goku is recovered. It's clear that the narrative treat heavily dropped Cell (in power) relevant to FP Goku.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I mean, who else would it be? I am the one bringing up the point, aren't I?

Thanks for claryfying it to me. Makes me know that it's useless and doesn't have an actual foundation within the story.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

If there was a character saying "Goku can easily win this if he was at full power, then give him a senzu bean" you may have a point.

 

[Power Level Guy]

If there was a character saying "Goku can easily win this if he was at full power, then give him a senzu bean" you may have a point.

We know Goku can definitely win if he gets a sensu bean against current Cell.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

We know Goku can definitely win if he gets a sensu bean against current Cell.

More unfounded and useless responses that has no proof.

 

[Power Level Guy]

More unfounded and useless responses that has no proof.

Why did Goku give Cell a sensu bean?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Why did Goku give Cell a sensu bean?

Because he considered unfair for him to fight Gohan like that.

 

[SSJ2]

He's no longer one or two steps ahead of Goku Post Kamehameha. Cell dropped more because he got his head torn off by a Kamehameha, Goku just used it. Cell got damaged a bit more than Goku got drained.

You might be right. Goku pushed him to the point of using a barrier.

Cell (vs Goku): 110
Goku: 100
Cell (fatigued): 85
Goku (fatigued): 80
Vegeta: 67

That's about the best I can do I think. I don't like Vegeta being less than 65% of SSJ Goku so it forces me to keep Cell slightly higher to maintain enough of a gap over Vegeta when fatigued.

 

[Power Level Guy]

You might be right. Goku pushed him to the point of using a barrier.

Cell (vs Goku): 110
Goku: 100
Cell (fatigued): 85
Goku (fatigued): 80
Vegeta: 67

That's about the best I can do I think. I don't like Vegeta being less than 65% of SSJ Goku so it forces me to keep Cell slightly higher to maintain enough of a gap over Vegeta when fatigued.

I hear you. There's a reason I usually keep Vegeta at only 60% of Goku because of this scenario.

Haha, funny, the second time "Vegeta's attack" actually works.

I'm coming along this section in the anime, I'm looking forward to really figuring it all out.

Trunks wants Goku to get a sensu and then team up. Do you think Trunks thinks Goku FP > Cell current?

Why would Trunks want to gang up if Goku will end up superior?

 

[ahill1]

I think Trunks is being cautious... Like, even though Cell may be behind Goku, ganging up on him allows any chance Cell may have of getting away. Or he thinks Cell has more power in reserve. Like, if he senses Cell as considerably below 100% MSSJ Goku and sees Cell encouraging Goku to get a Senzu Bean, and thinks Cell is not stupid, he may think the logical thing is that Cell hasn't shown FP. I'd say, though, while Cell has lot a lot of power as he said himself, he's still above everyone there even damaged and not powering up, sans Goku and Gohan... But Goku has already fallen to a level way below Vegeta/Piccolo/Trunks... As per the Cell Juniors' performance... And I don't believe Goku continued to lose power.


Cell (vs Goku) 100
Goku 90
Cell (post KMHMH) 88
Goku (post KMHMH) 80
Cell (post chi blasts) 75
Goku (post chi blasts) 35

Vegeta/Trunks/Cell Juniors 60
Piccolo 50

Something like this, I guess.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think Trunks is being cautious... Like, even though Cell may be behind Goku, ganging up on him allows any chance Cell may have of getting away. Or he thinks Cell has more power in reserve. Like, if he senses Cell as considerably below 100% MSSJ Goku and sees Cell encouraging Goku to get a Senzu Bean, and thinks Cell is not stupid, he may think the logical thing is that Cell hasn't shown FP. I'd say, though, while Cell has lot a lot of power as he said himself, he's still above everyone there even damaged and not powering up, sans Goku and Gohan... But Goku has already fallen to a level way below Vegeta/Piccolo/Trunks... As per the Cell Juniors' performance... And I don't believe Goku continued to lose power.


Cell (vs Goku) 100
Goku 90
Cell (post KMHMH) 88
Goku (post KMHMH) 80
Cell (post chi blasts) 75
Goku (post chi blasts) 35

Vegeta/Trunks/Cell Juniors 60
Piccolo 50

Something like this, I guess.

Yeah that looks good except for Piccolo of course. What do you have RoF Gohan at 55?

 

[SSJ2]

I think Trunks is being cautious... Like, even though Cell may be behind Goku, ganging up on him allows any chance Cell may have of getting away. Or he thinks Cell has more power in reserve. Like, if he senses Cell as considerably below 100% MSSJ Goku and sees Cell encouraging Goku to get a Senzu Bean, and thinks Cell is not stupid, he may think the logical thing is that Cell hasn't shown FP. I'd say, though, while Cell has lot a lot of power as he said himself, he's still above everyone there even damaged and not powering up, sans Goku and Gohan... But Goku has already fallen to a level way below Vegeta/Piccolo/Trunks... As per the Cell Juniors' performance... And I don't believe Goku continued to lose power.


Cell (vs Goku) 100
Goku 90
Cell (post KMHMH) 88
Goku (post KMHMH) 80
Cell (post chi blasts) 75
Goku (post chi blasts) 35

Vegeta/Trunks/Cell Juniors 60
Piccolo 50

Something like this, I guess.

I agree with everything up until Goku's level after the ki blasts. Doesn't it seem strange that a generic ki barrage would drain more than half of Goku's remaining power, but a fully charged KHH only drained 20%?

Vegeta also was absolutely shocked when Goku gave up, even though he knew Goku wasn't going to take a senzu bean. It looked to me that in Vegeta's eyes Goku was still their best bet. I think Goku experienced a continual drain of power after he lost his fighting aura. MSSJ was meant to keep the strain of SSJ at a minimum, but after the fight Goku had I believe it was inevitable for his power to continue draining until he became weaker than even Piccolo. He definitely wasn't portrayed as being that weak when he gave up the fight.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I agree with everything up until Goku's level after the ki blasts. Doesn't it seem strange that a generic ki barrage would drain more than half of Goku's remaining power, but a fully charged KHH only drained 20%?

Vegeta also was absolutely shocked when Goku gave up, even though he knew Goku wasn't going to take a senzu bean. It looked to me that in Vegeta's eyes Goku was still their best bet. I think Goku experienced a continual drain of power after he lost his fighting aura. MSSJ was meant to keep the strain of SSJ at a minimum, but after the fight Goku had I believe it was inevitable for his power to continue draining until he became weaker than even Piccolo. He definitely wasn't portrayed as being that weak when he gave up the fight.

Great points