Damaged Levels Cell/Goku

[Kyo]

Doesn't it seem strange that a generic ki barrage would drain more than half of Goku's remaining power, but a fully charged KHH only drained 20%?

It might be that because he was already tired, expending more ki just had more of a deleterious effect in general.
But the other points are good.

 

[ahill1]

I agree with everything up until Goku's level after the ki blasts. Doesn't it seem strange that a generic ki barrage would drain more than half of Goku's remaining power, but a fully charged KHH only drained 20%?

Vegeta also was absolutely shocked when Goku gave up, even though he knew Goku wasn't going to take a senzu bean. It looked to me that in Vegeta's eyes Goku was still their best bet. I think Goku experienced a continual drain of power after he lost his fighting aura. MSSJ was meant to keep the strain of SSJ at a minimum, but after the fight Goku had I believe it was inevitable for his power to continue draining until he became weaker than even Piccolo. He definitely wasn't portrayed as being that weak when he gave up the fight.

I think considering the nature of the effort and intensity of the chi blasts, with Goku spamming it so much with no thought, forcing Cell to even put up a barrier, that such was like Goku's last effort in dishing out powerful blasts as his last attempt in the fight. He knew he couldn't win already so he gave it everything with those chi blasts throwing them over and over, which, to an already drained warrior, can be too taxing, and as we saw, Goku was breathing way too heavily after that. I don't think the energy loss was continuous after that... I think Goku's condition after that last huge effort was just that bad... He returned to his no-aura, SSJ resting state, which can exist almost like a base state, so I don't see signs there of continual loss of energy when he wasn't exerting himself. It's different from Goku losing even more power when he tried to gather energy for one minute with SSJ3 for example, because there Goku was exerting himself in a state he wasn't used to. Here, he was moreso with the relaxed state not exerting himself... I don't see means for a continual power loss, not when he wasn't in fighting mode, or had his power up, or anything. My opinion, though.

As for Vegeta, I think it's different because Vegeta acknowledged Goku couldn't win... So Trunks was with the same kinda question like "but then... What do we do..." and Vegeta pointed at Goku having a plan like they had deduced earlier and to pin their hopes on that. He knew that power wise Goku was lost... He just thought Goku still had a reason to keep that calm demeanor he had always maintained, since before the CGs, so he was expecting something new there... what, he himself didn't know... But that works whether Goku is above or way below him I'd say, because the unexpected thing he was waiting Goku to pull was independent from the power Goku had at that moment, hence their surprise when Goku gave up, like "what... So is that really it? He hadn't a plan all along?" ... It boiled a lot down to "what Goku had up his sleeve", from the way I see it.

 

[ahill1]

Some panels that might add to my point. Goku was extra exterting himself (Roshi said that to him, Goku knows he'll lose) so he tried everything in an ultimate effort to leave somewhat of a mark, like a no consequences attack knowing it will be his last effort. Then Vegeta said Goku will definitely lose and that as Trunks said, he must have a plan, so to pin his hopes on that. I also think the fact Goku lost mostly stamina during the fight and wasn't exerting himself afterwards, being in the relaxed SSJ state, might also add to stamina not being an ongoing issue when the fighter wasn't exerting himself and was mostly relaxed observing in an almost natural state... I think in situations like this, continuous power drop is hard, since the excessive burden on the body isn't being applied so much anymore.

Only noticing that the panels are out of order, the last one happened firstly, ofc.

 

[Power Level Guy]

You are right @ahill1

He's more or less using an all out gamble. Ki can drop very rapidly out of nowhere.

But... Goku is seen as the strongest when he quits, no? Vegeta seems to think so and he thinks the sensu is an atrocity so he's not figuring that in.

 

[ahill1]

He wasn't said or seen as the strongest. He's stronger overall ofc, but I see no suggestion that weakened Goku was stronger. Vegeta thought the Senzu Bean was an atrocity because of their pride... That Goku wouldn't want to win that way. There was no comparison made with exhausted Goku.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta thought the Senzu Bean was an atrocity because of their pride... That Goku wouldn't want to win that way. There was no comparison made with exhausted Goku.

But they act like he will lose eventually, not that he's totally done... Hmm

 

[ahill1]

I mean, the thought that Goku might have something up is still on them. Trunks says "at this rate" but I don't think it implies it'll be a gradual thing... Just that the battle is turning to a point that Goku can't win. Vegeta stated he'll definitely lose... The fact Cell tells him to eat a Senzu means there isn't even a point in continuing the battle.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I mean, the thought that Goku might have something up is still on them. Trunks says "at this rate" but I don't think it implies it'll be a gradual thing... Just that the battle is turning to a point that Goku can't win. Vegeta stated he'll definitely lose... The fact Cell tells him to eat a Senzu means there isn't even a point in continuing the battle.

Yeah maybe. You are taking things more seriously lately. I like it. You’ve been making a lot of great points

 

[ahill1]

Yeah maybe. You are taking things more seriously lately. I like it. You’ve been making a lot of great points

That's what happens when I'm on vacation from work and college and have lots of ample time

Though I will go out to the theaters tomorrow since a friend of mine called me earlier and I can't give a no to her lulz tho the movie seems kinda lame but who knows

 

[Power Level Guy]

That's what happens when I'm on vacation from work and college and have lots of

Yeah bro, I've been home with Covid for two weeks. My game is tight right now. I've watched from the Trunks Arc to the Cell Games. I did the dub first and then I use triple speed to check the subs, feeling like I'm a Z genius right now haha

 

[ahill1]

Curse us to spend our times home on DBZ, this DBZ curse is real I tell ya. Today is the last day with DBZ stuff tho, as of today when I wake up I'll take a hiatus on this whole debating DBZ thing since it's bad to spend my entire free time doing that basically. Gotta read many other things, watch movies and get my ass back to exercising again