Did the Vegeta-Trunks gap shrink during the first Rosat trip?

[Papasmurf]

Continuing an argument I had with Dagon on Discord.

Here are the reasons why I believe the gap lessened after the 1st Rosat trip:

Vegeta is more or less usually treated as the strongest of the SSJ trio pre-Rosat with Piccolo backing up this notion. Trunks is treated as solidly below Goku, while Vegeta is at least usually treated as his rival even by people who seem to slightly overrate Goku such as Tenshinhan or Kami. Goku himself only uses Vegeta as the benchmark for why he can't defeat Cell or the androids. And without any explanation that Trunks was hit harder by the twin androids, Vegeta takes a much more brutal and prolonged beating, on top of stamina loss from fighting #18 in length before being taken down, and later than Trunks at that.

Meanwhile, after the 1st Rosat nothing suggests there is as large of a gap as there was pre-Rosat, with even Vegeta himself saying (in an arrogant fashion to boot) "He isn't quite as powerful as me, but he possesses a power close to myself" which is about as much of an admission of being close rivals as Vegeta will give. The two are then treated more or less as equals for the rest of the arc.

Thoughts? @SIAD @SSJ2 @GreatSaiyaman123 @Dagon @Pakl

 

[SIAD]

It may be, I have in both Arcs as Vegeta one step ahead of Future Trunks.

I think that in the Android Arc, Vegeta did much better than Future Trunks, being a little more powerful and having greater stamina.

 

[Papasmurf]

It may be, I have in both Arcs as Vegeta one step ahead of Future Trunks.

I think that in the Android Arc, Vegeta did much better than Future Trunks, being a little more powerful and having greater stamina.

Give me your numbers for pre and post 1st Rosat

 

[SSJ2]

Vegeta's overall attitude towards Trunks shows that the gap lessened. He was talking down to Trunks pre RoSaT like he was a little bitch.

Chapter: 379 (DBZ 185), P11.4
Context: Vegeta talks to second form Cell
Vegeta: “Heh. I’ll tell you something that will really shock you! There’s a guy named Trunks over there. He’s not as powerful as me, but we’re pretty close…!”

VS

Chapter: 350 (DBZ 156), P14.1
Context: after Trunks blasts the androids and it doesn’t faze them
Vegeta: “Looks like that level [of attack] is just a waste of energy.”

And there's also Trunks being in awe over Vegeta's power:

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.3-6
Trunks: “Am-amazing! I hadn’t realized that father was this strong…! To think that he’s able to fight on par with that outrageous android…!”
Piccolo: “Vegeta’s going to be killed…[ ] Watch…Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It’s because his enemy’s power never falls at all, while Vegeta’s stamina falls the more he moves.”

 

[Papasmurf]

Vegeta's overall attitude towards Trunks shows that the gap lessened. He was talking down to Trunks pre RoSaT like he was a little bitch.

Chapter: 379 (DBZ 185), P11.4
Context: Vegeta talks to second form Cell
Vegeta: “Heh. I’ll tell you something that will really shock you! There’s a guy named Trunks over there. He’s not as powerful as me, but we’re pretty close…!”

VS

Chapter: 350 (DBZ 156), P14.1
Context: after Trunks blasts the androids and it doesn’t faze them
Vegeta: “Looks like that level [of attack] is just a waste of energy.”

And there's also Trunks being in awe over Vegeta's power:

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.3-6
Trunks: “Am-amazing! I hadn’t realized that father was this strong…! To think that he’s able to fight on par with that outrageous android…!”
Piccolo: “Vegeta’s going to be killed…[ ] Watch…Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It’s because his enemy’s power never falls at all, while Vegeta’s stamina falls the more he moves.”

Good post. I had forgotten about Vegeta's reaction to Trunks' faggy blast

 

[SIAD]

Give me your numbers for pre and post 1st Rosat

Initially I had:

Vegeta SSJ over Future Trunks SSJ = 17,000/15,625

Vegeta ASSJ = Future Trunks ASSJ = 12/11

I will evaluate the possibility of increasing their Arc Android gaps or decreasing the gap between them when training on the Rosat.

 

[Dagon]

Chapter: 350 (DBZ 156), P14.1
Context: after Trunks blasts the androids and it doesn’t faze them
Vegeta: “Looks like that level [of attack] is just a waste of energy.”

If anything this is the thing that can convince me.

It also suggests that Trunks' best SSJ blast(albeit with little charge time) doesn't appear to be much of any higher than his regular SSJ power, which could lend credence to my ki attack theory(that they scale from base rather than max powers).

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If anything this is the thing that can convince me.

It also suggests that Trunks' best SSJ blast(albeit with little charge time) doesn't appear to be much of any higher than his regular SSJ power, which could lend credence to my ki attack theory(that they scale from base rather than max powers).

I didn’t know your theory applied to SSJ too. Thought it was only for Kaio-Ken.

 

[SIAD]

Initially I had:

Vegeta SSJ over Future Trunks SSJ = 17,000/15,625

Vegeta ASSJ = Future Trunks ASSJ = 12/11

I will evaluate the possibility of increasing their Arc Android gaps or decreasing the gap between them when training on the Rosat.

I'm thinking of having in the Arc Android: Vegeta SSJ over Future Trunks SSJ = 17,000 - 15,400.

 

[SSJ2]

Pre RoSaT:

Vegeta: 105
Goku: 100
Trunks: 92

Post RoSaT:

Vegeta: 105
Trunks: 100

I think pre RoSaT Trunks could be weaker than we think. The only thing keeping him relevant is Tenshinhan saying Goku shouldn't be all that different than Trunks or Vegeta, and Kami comparing Vegeta/Trunks as if Vegeta isn't fully out of his league. I think that puts a cap on how weak Trunks can be, but it's pretty evident that Vegeta considers him to be pretty weak. 17 also respects Vegeta's abilities while effortlessly one shotting Trunks.

 

[Dagon]

I didn’t know your theory applied to SSJ too. Thought it was only for Kaio-Ken.

When you think about it, the scene of SSJ Trunks not having an effect on 17 and 18 despite his best efforts would suggest that it is not a multi-fold blast unless we want to say Piccolo gets many-folds stronger from fusing with Kami.

And then we have Vegeta trying his best Big Bang Attack on 18 and it has less effect on her than Final Crash vs Recoome. Again only really circumvented if we say 18 is >1.5x SSJ Vegeta if BBA over SSJ is at least equal to Final Crash over Ginyu Saga Vegeta.

Amplified blasts seemed to become less important or prevalent in the story after the Saiyan Arc, only really being a plot point a handful of times, most notably Final Flash and Warp Kamehameha vs Cell.