Do you agree with these claims?

[Loby]

Do you agree with any of the following claims? Bunch of debates gathered into one thread. What I want to know is whether you agree with them or not, and if there's something you disagree with (I suspect that you will disagree with half, if not most), clarify your reasoning

Spoiler: All The Claims

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

SSJ3 Goku is weaker than Gohan and that's not debatable.

 

[Loby]

SSJ3 Goku is weaker than Gohan and that's not debatable.

I will appriciate if you respond to the rest.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

SSJ3 Goku is weaker than Gohan and that's not debatable.

I will appriciate if you respond to the rest.

Okay then.

I don't care for Broly, and haven't watched his movies. Though it does seem like he is stronger than Cell.

SSJ Goten is stronger.

Base Goku in Super doesn't have God Ki. He's not as strong, nowhere near as strong as SSJG.

SSJ Goku isn't stronger than Cell.

SSJ2 is the same all around.

Obviously Beerus is stronger.

Dabura would be weaker.

I doubt Uub is automatically as strong as Kid boo without training.

I'll give Yamcha that.

I haven't gotten far in GT, so who knows.

Yeah I'll agree with Pui Pui being stronger.

SSJ2 Vegeta isn't stronger than SSJB Vegeta.

Base Goku isn't stronger than Zamasu.

Vegetto would've killed Zamasu if it weren't for the time limit.

Mastered SSJ > any of the grade forms.

He's not stronger than Gohan even in BoG.

SSJ3 Goku isn't universal.

idk

Gotenks stomps.

Movie said so, Broly is galaxy tier.

Idk, nothing says.

Yes, the Top said that Jiren was stronger than the GoD's.

Vegetto is literally stated to be stronger.

Nope. Boohan still stomps.

It's all of Cell's power of course it's stronger.

Nope. They aren't that strong.

While Goku had the edge over Freeza it wasn't big enough to be considered massive.

Why would Vegetto transform then.

Haven't watched all of GT.

Raditz was shit tier at that point.

Yes. Piccolo was far stronger.

Boo said he's stomp Gogeta in the manga.

nah.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

1. M8 Broly is a galaxy buster while Cell is just a solar system at best.

Broly > Cell

2. Goku claimed that he and Vegeta would get killed if they faced Super Boo who is weaker than Ultimate Gohan.

Gohan > Super Boo > SSjin3 Goku

3. Goten was able to fight Gohan head on something that I don't see Piccolo doing it against Gohan.

Goten Piccolo

4. The movie and anime stated that Goku absorbed SSG power but the manga didn't said something like that iirc.

5. It would take a SSjin2 level to surpass SPC.

6. Goku claimed that SSjin2 Gohan is unstoppable so maybe yes?

7. Goku from the movie said that not even a fusion can defeat Beerus so yeah.

8. This is again depends if Gohan was SSjin or SSjin2 against Dabura which is debatable.

9. I don't think so. I think Goku right there at that level but not surpass it yet if we're excluding Super of course.

9. I don't see why not, Yamcha trained in King Kai's planet along with Tien and Choutzu so it's natural that they've surpass Goku from Saiyan arc at this point.

10. Pan is probably stronger than Cell IMO.

11. Well given that Shin is scared of Pui Pui so yeah.

12. Nope, Vegeta didn't get stronger during that time but rather he managed to learn how to switch SSjinG to SSjinB.

13. Nope, there's no evidence of that.

14. Debatable but I think Vegito is still stronger.

15. Well duh.

16. Yes, Goku surpassed Gohan by BoG IMO.

17. Idk

18. Hatchiyak is probably around full powered Cell not SPC.

19. Gotenks is said to be capable to destroy Boo so false.

20.

21. Nope

22. Anime? Yes, Manga? Only Belmod but not Beerus IMO.

23. Shin said yes so

24. I don't see why not.

25. True, ex: Goku's KHH against Raditz is stronger than his full power.

26. False, the Cell Jrs are equal to Vegeta and Trunks who are absolutely shit against Cell who fought Goku.

27. Nope, both are close until Freeza's stamina went down.

28. Debatable but I can agree with that.

29. Base Gohan? Since he was having a trouble against Rildo who got one shotted by Majuub so false.

30. Tien > Saibaman ~ Raditz

31. Goku and Piccolo from 23rd Budokai are the strongest of DB part 1 so true.

32. False, Gogeta is stronger than Bootenks since Goku got stronger since then.

33. False, SSjin3 Vegito from Boo arc is said to rival SSjin4 Goku.

 

[Loby]

1. M8 Broly is a galaxy buster while Cell is just a solar system at best.

Broly > Cell

2. Goku claimed that he and Vegeta would get killed if they faced Super Boo who is weaker than Ultimate Gohan.

Gohan > Super Boo > SSjin3 Goku

3. Goten was able to fight Gohan head on something that I don't see Piccolo doing it against Gohan.

Goten Piccolo

4. The movie and anime stated that Goku absorbed SSG power but the manga didn't said something like that iirc.

5. It would take a SSjin2 level to surpass SPC.

6. Goku claimed that SSjin2 Gohan is unstoppable so maybe yes?

7. Goku from the movie said that not even a fusion can defeat Beerus so yeah.

8. This is again depends if Gohan was SSjin or SSjin2 against Dabura which is debatable.

9. I don't think so. I think Goku right there at that level but not surpass it yet if we're excluding Super of course.

9. I don't see why not, Yamcha trained in King Kai's planet along with Tien and Choutzu so it's natural that they've surpass Goku from Saiyan arc at this point.

10. Pan is probably stronger than Cell IMO.

11. Well given that Shin is scared of Pui Pui so yeah.

12. Nope, Vegeta didn't get stronger during that time but rather he managed to learn how to switch SSjinG to SSjinB.

13. Nope, there's no evidence of that.

14. Debatable but I think Vegito is still stronger.

15. Well duh.

16. Yes, Goku surpassed Gohan by BoG IMO.

17. Idk

18. Hatchiyak is probably around full powered Cell not SPC.

19. Gotenks is said to be capable to destroy Boo so false.

20.

21. Nope

22. Anime? Yes, Manga? Only Belmod but not Beerus IMO.

23. Shin said yes so

24. I don't see why not.

25. True, ex: Goku's KHH against Raditz is stronger than his full power.

26. False, the Cell Jrs are equal to Vegeta and Trunks who are absolutely shit against Cell who fought Goku.

27. Nope, both are close until Freeza's stamina went down.

28. Debatable but I can agree with that.

29. Base Gohan? Since he was having a trouble against Rildo who got one shotted by Majuub so false.

30. Tien > Saibaman ~ Raditz

31. Goku and Piccolo from 23rd Budokai are the strongest of DB part 1 so true.

32. False, Gogeta is stronger than Bootenks since Goku got stronger since then.

33. False, SSjin3 Vegito from Boo arc is said to rival SSjin4 Goku.

1. Lol what? Broly is no galaxy buster unless you are joking.

4. It's stated he absorbed god power which makes his SSJ not to far from his SSJG. Does that mean Base Goku ia now stronger?

6. When did Goku say so and what does that have to do with the multipliers?

8. Gohan is clearly SSJ in the manga. There is no debate.

9. Oob who waa not at full power seemed to overpower Goku. No way Base Goku is in par with Pure Boo. He is stronger than Good Boo though.

11. Pui Pui was one shot material for Base Vegeta. Kaioshin didnt seem so weak and he can one shot Freeza.

16. Goku can never surpass Gohan in BoS. Makes no sense as he cant be much stronger.

20. Broly stronger than a galaxy? Lol. You are joking hahah. Also why does his image say pakl? What does that mean?

22. Why?

24. I see no reason why Goku is stronger and it makes no sense.

28. I disagree. Base Vegetto is not anything special.

32. What do you mean?

33. That was never said

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

1. Broly did managed to nearly destroyed the Southern Galaxies.

4. I haven't watch that fight both anime and the movie so I'll just agree with you here.

6. Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

8. Dabura was compared to Cell and later said that Dabura is even stronger. Either Goku was refering SPC or FP Cell, either way it will take more than SSjin to defeat those version of Cell.

9. I don't think we have anything to disagree with here.

11. Then why Kaioshin thinks they need to gang up against Pui Pui not that I disagree but that arc was just a shitty writing.

16. Why not? Vegeta said that Goku became no.1 after the death of Boo and he refused to be no2 something like that.

20. Have you seen the beginning of the movie with Broly destroying the galaxies?

22. I'm assuming that your question is about the manga. We don't know that Beerus powers get. Jiren was said to be stronger than Belmod but not Beerus. The new movie said that Broly is the mightiests along with Gogeta and Broly is said to be stronger than Beerus not Jiren.


24. Why not? Goku trained for like 10 years and he expected Uub to be a strong as Pure Boo and he fought him around his base form. Surely his SSjin3 which is 400x of his base is strong enough to surpass Boohan?

28. Sure

32. I have SSjin3 Goku from that movie 12 stronger than SSjin Gotenks. We all know that base fusion is stronger than fusess full power so in short, Base Gogeta > SS3 Goku. Which mean that with 50x boost of SSjin (depends on how you view that multiplier) should be strong enough to surpass Bootenks IMO.

33. It was stated in DBGT anime comic special.

 

[Loby]

1. Broly did managed to nearly destroyed the Southern Galaxies.

4. I haven't watch that fight both anime and the movie so I'll just agree with you here.

6. Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

8. Dabura was compared to Cell and later said that Dabura is even stronger. Either Goku was refering SPC or FP Cell, either way it will take more than SSjin to defeat those version of Cell.

9. I don't think we have anything to disagree with here.

11. Then why Kaioshin thinks they need to gang up against Pui Pui not that I disagree but that arc was just a shitty writing.

16. Why not? Vegeta said that Goku became no.1 after the death of Boo and he refused to be no2 something like that.

20. Have you seen the beginning of the movie with Broly destroying the galaxies?

22. I'm assuming that your question is about the manga. We don't know that Beerus powers get. Jiren was said to be stronger than Belmod but not Beerus. The new movie said that Broly is the mightiests along with Gogeta and Broly is said to be stronger than Beerus not Jiren.


24. Why not? Goku trained for like 10 years and he expected Uub to be a strong as Pure Boo and he fought him around his base form. Surely his SSjin3 which is 400x of his base is strong enough to surpass Boohan?

28. Sure

32. I have y Goku from that movie 12 stronger than SSjin Gotenks. We all know that base fusion is stronger than fusess full power so in short, Base Gogeta > SS3 Goku. Which mean that with 50x boost of SSjin (depends on how you view that multiplier) should be strong enough to surpass Bootenks IMO.

33. It was stated in DBGT anime comic special.

1. He was destroying the galaxy during 30 years. Just destroyed the planets and civilizations. Give Freeza 30 years and he can destroy it too. Busting is making the galaxy disappear in one shot. New planet vegeta was in the south galaxy and Goku was on it in the begining of the movie. Broly just left it in ruins. I think you are joking though.

6. What does that quote mean? It means Gohan needs to go SSJ2 like he did vs Cell. He had no lightning in the manga and was designed as SSJ.

8. Goku could of meant to the Cell he fought. It makes sense as Dahura was having troubles with SSjin Gohan. Also, Goku said he was stronger due to his magic.

11. You just said it. It's bas writing. Kaioshin was also surprised about Base Vegeta despite seeing SSJ2 Gohan. It's a retcon. Kaioshin was just cautious because he knew Babidi gathered the strongest fighters in the universe. Also, IIRC, he wanted to gang up on Yakon and not Pui Pui.

16. Vegeta said he is number 2 so Vegeta > Gohan? It makes more sense they ignored Ultimate Gohan's power like in BoG movie. The ToP backs it up too.

20. Already answered to this

22. The Broly movie is a reference to the anime. Jiren is clearly stronger than the gods of destruction as mentioned in various places. Not to mention that all gods in the manga are around the same level. It makea no sense for Jiren to be ahead of Belmod but not Beerus even in the manga. The Broly movie is also a contradiction. Thats what happen when you have Toriyama writing a movie about a series he never had anything to do with.

24. Even GT has BoGT Goku not at that level. In the Manga, Oob only showed Pure Boo strength once and it was with a kiai which Goku was sent fly anyway. There is no way he can reach that level (canon wise)

32. Nothing indicates M12 Goku is much different than his canon self. M12 Vegeta is his canon self so I would say the gap between M12 Goku to Canon Goku is like the gap between Canon Goku to Pre Majin Vegeta

M12 Goku > M12 Vegeta ~ Vegeta (Post Majin) ~ Canon Goku > Pre Majin Vegeta.

While I agree about the base fusion > highest invidual thing, we dont know if it was true in Z and not just a retcon in super. Either way. M12 Gogeta doesn't need to be so strong. I think he is in par with Ultimate Gohan at best.

33. It was stated about Vegetto and not SSJ3. It can only mean SSJ Vegetto which was the only Vegetto was saw. Not that I agree with it because Baby >> Z SSJ Vegetto so I take this guidebook with a grain of salt.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

1. He was destroying the galaxy during 30 years. Just destroyed the planets and civilizations. Give Freeza 30 years and he can destroy it too. Busting is making the galaxy disappear in one shot. New planet vegeta was in the south galaxy and Goku was on it in the begining of the movie. Broly just left it in ruins. I think you are joking though.

One of the staff who produced M8 said that Broly destroyed the south galaxies.

"In France and in the world, we recognize you for the 8th DBZ movie, the one that revolve around the mythical Broly. How did you had the idea for this change, the movie going in other directions than usual ?

Shigeyasu Yamauchi : When I had to work on the Broly movie, I realized that he lacked something, although he is the most powerful Saiyan. It's this solitude of the powerful warrior that I wanted to retranscribe. He can destroy galaxies but is alone compared to Goku, whom he despises but has a family, just like Vegeta. When he loses at the end, he realizes that strength is not just physical, he would have been able to unlock another kind of power if he had something to protect for example."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42231

6. What does that quote mean? It means Gohan needs to go SSJ2 like he did vs Cell. He had no lightning in the manga and was designed as SSJ.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…
Gohan SSjin2 > SSjin2 Goku

8. Goku could of meant to the Cell he fought. It makes sense as Dahura was having troubles with SSjin Gohan. Also, Goku said he was stronger due to his magic.

Nope, why would he compare the weaker version of Cell? Might as well he meant that Semi Cell too while we're at it. You see, they always compare it to someone's full power. So either it's SPC or FP Cell.

11. You just said it. It's bas writing. Kaioshin was also surprised about Base Vegeta despite seeing SSJ2 Gohan. It's a retcon. Kaioshin was just cautious because he knew Babidi gathered the strongest fighters in the universe. Also, IIRC, he wanted to gang up on Yakon and not Pui Pui.

Bad writing so there's nothing to argue about this topic.

16. Vegeta said he is number 2 so Vegeta > Gohan? It makes more sense they ignored Ultimate Gohan's power like in BoG movie. The ToP backs it up too.

There's no evidence that they ignored it. Both the anime and the movie were pretty clear about this. If it's the manga you're talking about then sure maybe.

22. The Broly movie is a reference to the anime. Jiren is clearly stronger than the gods of destruction as mentioned in various places. Not to mention that all gods in the manga are around the same level. It makea no sense for Jiren to be ahead of Belmod but not Beerus even in the manga. The Broly movie is also a contradiction. Thats what happen when you have Toriyama writing a movie about a series he never had anything to do with.

Beerus and Quitella were the last standing during the Battle Royal. Also before the battle according to Quitella that he and Beerus should settle once and for all about who's the strongest Hakaishin which implies that both of them can claim the title but not Belmod.

24. Even GT has BoGT Goku not at that level. In the Manga, Oob only showed Pure Boo strength once and it was with a kiai which Goku was sent fly anyway. There is no way he can reach that level (canon wise)

My memory is limited about this topic but I'll just agree with you here.

32. Nothing indicates M12 Goku is much different than his canon self. M12 Vegeta is his canon self so I would say the gap between M12 Goku to Canon Goku is like the gap between Canon Goku to Pre Majin Vegeta

M12 Goku > M12 Vegeta ~ Vegeta (Post Majin) ~ Canon Goku > Pre Majin Vegeta.

While I agree about the base fusion > highest invidual thing, we dont know if it was true in Z and not just a retcon in super. Either way. M12 Gogeta doesn't need to be so strong. I think he is in par with Ultimate Gohan at best.

Goku destroyed Fat Janemba who is said to be strongest Ki he ever felt. Either it was Fat Boo, SSjin Gotenks or Initial Super Boo either way Goku was capable of destroying that kind of level something that his canon counterpart isn't.

Also Base Gotenks > SSjin Goten and Trunks or Base Vegito > SSjinB Goku and Vegeta from the Super manga are the evidence of base fusion > strongest individuals

33. It was stated about Vegetto and not SSJ3. It can only mean SSJ Vegetto which was the only Vegetto was saw. Not that I agree with it because Baby >> Z SSJ Vegetto so I take this guidebook with a grain of salt.

Yes it was Vegito but not SSjin3. But think about it, it took SBV1 to surpassed SSjin Vegito according to Goku so surely that a SSjin3 Vegito can bridge the gap to SSjin4 Goku's power.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

1. Only if you take Broly's damage to the South Galaxy, which could be anywhere up to a Multi-Solar System level feat and pit Toei Canon Broly against Manga Canon Cell when it comes to destructive capability, otherwise Cell stomps.

2. Only anime-wise. Manga-wise, Gohan >>> Goku is undeniable.

3. Definitely

4. Possibly so anime-wise, but definitely not the case manga-wise.

5. Unless for some reason you believe there's a massive gap between SS2 Gohan and SPC despite the exact opposite being made apparent, then that's obviously false.

6. No reason to assume their SS2 forms provide a different boost, unless taking into account the implied rage boost that may have occurred in the final part of the Kamehameha struggle.

7. Pretty obvious.

8. Only if referring to the Cell Goku fought, and even that is very arguable.

9. Wouldn't agree, though I'd say Base Goku is still on Boo's level.

10. Easily.

11. Definitely. I'd even argue 28th TB Pan may be above him.

12. I'd personally agree. Shin's telekinesis may allow him to win in an actual fight though.

13. I see absolutely nothing to suggest that with how Goku was never implied to make great gains in the manga after the God ritual and him giving more reverence to Vegeta's control over the God forms rather than any gains in power after the Rosat.

14. Anime Super's powerscaling is nonsensical, so it's hard to judge, though I'd personally chalk ToP Base Goku's feats up to plot armour when considering True Golden Freeza is still on par with the SSBs in the Broly film despite having no implied gains.

15. Most likely.

16. In terms of the boost? I'd say they're equal.

17. Definitely so anime-wise. Manga-wise, it's arguable, though I'd say Goku would have to be at least Gohan's equal to be the one chosen for the God ritual.

18. Definitely not the case manga-wise where the best feats and statements are Solar System level. Anime-wise, it could be argued, though even the more high-end feats seem to just be touching Universe level.

19. Same as Broly VS SPC

20. Not sure how that's arguable. Nobody refuted SSJ Gotenks being able to beat Fat Boo.

21. Is that supposed to be a galaxy? If so, then no. Even treating Broly's feat at its high level of taking place over a short period of time, he only caused great damage to the South Galaxy and the feat is at best Multi-Solar System level.

22. Only with the Shin Kikoho.

23. Manga-wise, probably not, since no statement was made in regard to comparing Beerus and Jiren, plus the chain of Broly ~ Beerus > Jiren implied by the Broly movie and its promotional material is there. Anime-wise, could go either way with how many times Beerus' full power has been retconned.

24. In terms of power, no. There's no reason to refute Shin stating Vegetto may have surpassed Beerus. In an actual fight, however, Beerus would win due to better stamina.

25. Definitely not the case manga-wise. Anime-wise, Goku would've already surpassed him by the time he fought Pure Boo.

26. Possibly, though the treatment of the Kamehameha as an amplification seemed to die out after the Saiyan Arc.

27. Definitely not. Vegeta and Trunks wouldn't have been holding their own if that were the case, as Cell even made apparent.

28. Not really. Their fight still presented Freeza as being able to give Goku a lot of difficulty and there'd be no reason for Goku to stall if he could finish things fast.

29. I'd say so.

30. Definitely not for Base Gohan, as their difference in performance against Rild proved. Even for his higher forms, I wouldn't say Gohan presented anything that would suggest him to have surpassed Oob.

31. That was the whole point of the Saibaimen fight and them being treat as a benchmark for Raditz.

32. Oozaru Goku didn't present any Moon level feats, so definitely.

33. In terms of scaling and both in the anime continuity, most likely. Taking destructive feats into account, however, Manga Gotenks Boo would get stomped due to M12 Gogeta being Galaxy level.

34. If ignoring Gogeta's Galaxy level scaling and going purely with powerscaling, I'd say Goku definitely surpasses him, though not BoG SS3 Vegetto.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Magnum, is that you?

Putting this shite on spoiler tag to avoid long ass posts.

Spoiler

1. Yeah, he blew up a Galaxy in a short amount of time. That’s multiple times above SPC’s Solar System busting.
2. Only by the end of the anime. Gohan > Goku is a fact and I don’t think I need to explain why…
3. Yeah, he’s Gohan’s equal and Piccolo shat bricks to his power.
4. Yeah.
5. No. Goku said he ran into a wall after Rosat, so he’d still lose to suppressed Cell, let alone SPC.
6. No. It’s blatantly stated otherwise. Unless you’re refering to Gohan when he killed Cell, which I’d agree.
7. Dunno
8. Kinda. Same power levels, but Dabra’s makes him tougher.
9. No. Goku hit his limit in the Boo Arc, and shouldn’t be any stronger after 10 years of earth training.
10. No. The fact Yamcha never learned the Kaioken would imply he never reached Goku’s level.
11. Idc
12. No. Kaioshin can one shot Freeza, who was the top of the universe power chain for years.
13. No reason to believe that.
14. Idc
15. Idk
16. Yeah. Blatantly stated.
17. Yes, but only in Anime.
18. Dunno
19. Yeah, he’s >= Broly, who’s >>> Cell…
20. No. It’s blatantly stated SSJ Gotenks can kill Fat Boo.
21. Probably not.
22. Lol no. Farming around won’t make Tenshinhan surpass Freeza, let alone fucking Cell.
23. Probably not. Jiren is below Broky, who rivals Beerus.
24. It could be the case, but all the evidence we have says it’s the other way around.
25. Not even close.
26. Yeah, duh.
27. No. Cell Jrs are stated to be Cell’s equals, not superiors.
28. No. They were shown to be dead even.
29. Maybe.

Don’t care about the others.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

1. M8 Broly>SPC: Agree.
2. SSJ3 Goku>Ultimate Gohan: Disagree at the manga, agree at the anime.
3. SSJ Goten>Piccolo: Agree.
4. Base Goku>SSJ God Goku: Agree at the anime, if we're talking about the second base (I'm a fan of two bases theory), disagree at the manga.
5. SSJ Goku>SPC: Disagree.
6. SSJ2 multiplier (Cell Games)>SSJ2 multiplier (Buu Saga): Agree.
7. M14 Beerus>M12 Gogeta: Agree.
8. Dabura>Cell: Which Cell do you mean? I have Dabura slightly weaker than FP Perfect Cell.
9. EOZ Base Goku>Kid Buu: Disagree at the original manga, agree at the new material anime, if we're talking about the second base.
10. Yamcha (Androids)>Goku (Saiyans): Agree.
11. Pan> SPC: Dunno.
12. Puipui>East Kaioshin: Agree at the original manga, disagree at the new material anime.
13. SSJ2 Vegeta (chapter 22)>SSJB Vegeta (chapter 19/20): Disagree.
14. Episode 131 Base Goku>Merged Zamasu: Disagree.
15. Spirit sword>SSJB Vegetto: Agree.
16. MSSJ multiplier>SSJ multiplier: Disagree at the original manga, agree at the new material anime (it's a good way to keep Base Saiyans<Freeza).
17. BOG SSJ3 Goku>Ultimate Gohan: Disagree at the manga, agree at the anime.
18. SSJ3 Goku is a universe buster: Disagree.
19. Hatchiyak>SPC: Disagree.
20: Majin Vegeta>SSJ Gotenks (pre rosat): Disagree.
21. SSJ Broly is a galaxy buster: Disagree.
22. Buu Saga Tenshinhan>Imperfect Cell: Disagree.
23. FP Jiren>Beerus/Belmod: Agree at the anime. At the manga, if Broly movie counts, it seems that Belmod<Initial Jiren<<FP Jiren<Beerus<Broly.
24. Manga Beerus>Manga SSJB Vegetto: Agree.
25. EOZ SSJ3 Goku>Enraged Buuhan: Disagree.
26. SPC KHH>FP SPC: Agree.
27. Cell Juniors>Suppressed PC: Disagree.
28. SSJ Goku>>100% Freeza: Disagree at the manga, agree at the anime.
29. Base Vegetto>Buutenks: Agree.
30. Super 17 Base Gohan>Majuub (Baby Saga): Disagree.
31: Saiyan Saga Tenshinhan>Raditz: I have them equal. If Raditz is bloodlusted, he wins.
32: 23rd TB Piccolo>21st TB Ape Goku: Agree.
33. Buutenks>M12 SSJ Gogeta: Agree.
34. Shadow Dragons Base Goku>BOG SSJ3 Vegetto/M12 SSJ3 Gogeta: Disagree.

 

[ahill1]

Since I got time to kill:

1 - I think that having them around the same power is a good compromisse. It makes sense as Cell's an enemy the CGs cast, sans Gohan SSJ2, couldn't hope to defeat;

2 - Nah. Goku stated that Super Boo is beyond his abilities, whereas Gohan manhandled that same Boo. Really clear cut.

3 - Agreed. Goten was a good sparring partner for Gohan and had him on the ropes for a while. Piccolo on the other hand is likely way weaker than Kaioshin, who's probably a note or two below Dabura and SSJ Gohan.

4 - Disagreed. Even though Goku has gotten stronger, there's still seemingly a cap on his gap over kid Gohan, as Piccolo shows a certain uncertainty at Majin Vegeta's superiority over Gohan from 7 years ago. Meanwhile, Cell's so much more powerful than kid Gohan SSJ that he was fine enough allowing Gohan get a boost on top of his SSJ power.

5 - Hmm, that's debatable imo.

6 - Of course. It was stated in the BoG movie that not even if Goku and Vegeta performed fusion they'd be a match for Beerus.

7 - Disagreed, as I think it's more likely that Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura. Dabura might have been comparable to the Cell Goku fought.

8 - I think they are definitely close as I believe Oob managed to tap on Kid Boo's power when enraged. But still seeing as Oob's kick visibly hurt Goku's arm, I'd give a slight edge to Kid Boo.

9 - Agreed. Gero considered Yamcha a good source of energy and the wording used latter for Gero's absorptions implies it works by adding the absorber's power... doubt Yamcha would be considered a good source of energy if below Saiyajin saga's power.

10 - It's likely, seeing how she could knock out Rildo, whose power is above Boohan's.

11 - Disagreed. Pui Pui was humiliated by base Vegeta, whereas Kaioshin is likely stronger than Piccolo, whom is likely above a base Saiyajin given hks performance against a Cell Junior seven years earlier.

12 - Dunno.

13 - Dunno.

14 - Dunno.

15 - Multiplier wise, they are the same, although grade 4 has the advantage of not suffering from restless feeling and allowing the Saiyajin to remain as natural as possible while in the state.

16 - I think Gohan holds an advantage until Goku accessed the God's power.

17 - Dunno.

18 - Dunno.

19 - Dunno.

20 - Disagreed. Vegeta was no match for fat Boo and his explosion still failed to ultimately kill him, while Goku stated that there's no way the kids are gonna lose if they master the technique taught by the Metamorians.

21 - Disagreed. Tenshinhan is still labeled in official material as weaker than Kuririn, so although he has gained power, it doesn't seem enough to topple someone above Freeza.

22 - Agreed. Isn't it stated?

23 - Well, we haven't a comparison between both as far as the anime goes, although it's stated by Kaioshin in the manga that Vegetto has likely acquired power enough to surpass Beerus.

24 - Nah. Goku's base is now on par with his former ssj3 self... but seeing as post base RoSaT Gotenks was way above that and that ssj3 Gotenks still fell short to powers like Boohan, Goku's still lagging way behind.

25- Ehh... true. It amplified his power.

26 -Nope. Vegeta could still fight back against the mini Cells, whereas Cell held an advantage against FPSSJ Goku.



Jesus, I'm bored already.