Do you think a character confidence is misfounded or not?

[Natasha Romanoff]

For example:

Example A: Someone sees a character lost badly and they thought they could beat that someone. Then it is proven wrong, but for that to be right they would be thinking they're stronger than that character or at least can rival to an extent

Example B: Someone sees a character lost badly, think they could beat them but ended failing. They're predicament was wrong all along and we can align nothing with all of these implications.

Which approach do you think is more consistent and logical? Or which would you go by?

IMO the reduction system (1st one) is more appropiated, but it's not actually infalible as it would let many conflicts on some premises. While the 2nd one is pretty closed and doesn't admit a third hand to help making a proper case, as well as has more cons.

 

[ahill1]

A: if the character they thought they could beat didn't power up nor anything, then I'd say it's misguided confidence... Doesn't mean much. It doesn't even necessarily mean they are > the one who lost, since they should be above the winner, so if he was already misguided to the point he couldn't even get the basics on check and were way below the winner, then I don't see why he needs to surpass a minimum requirement when their confidence stemmed from defeating a character who didn't even power up... So their confidence ought to have come from something else in situations like this.

For me the example B, it'd be the same. Unless in example A the character is proven wrong by the opponent powering up? If that's the case, then yeah, surpassing the one who lost should be logical.

It's like Vegeta having some confidence he could defeat true form Freeza. He saw 3rd form Freeza's power and could keep up with true form Freeza's power until Freeza increased his speed. That obviously tells me post Zenkai Vegeta surpassed 3rd form Freeza since he couldn't defeat Freeza due to this latter doing something he couldn't predict --- speed increase and then, likely, power up.

If in example B we can have pre RoSaT base Gotenks, then I don't think he needs to be above SSJ2 tier to have that confidence... He didn't even come close to fat Boo and SSJ3 Goku... If he had those powers in mind and was still arrogant because he obviously couldn't back up what he said (while he wasn't proven wrong as he sensed SSJ3 Goku), then I don't think it means anything in regards to him having to surpass below levels...

... Since the very fundamental of his belief was already shaken up.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Actually you're purposing a rational logic. As a contradicted statement can simply remain contradicted.

Vegeta is far ahead of 3rd form Freeza as he could see Initial True Form Freeza attacks while nobody else could do and 3rd form Freeza's attacks were able to be seen by anyone. Even though, he is not on True Form Freeza initial level, he is pretty close (he is shown efforting to observe those attacks), so that's where his confidence could be and he also has a trump card still.

Gotenks doesn't require to be ahead of SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, but he requires to at least be ahead of the SSJ kids based on how he thinks he compare with Majin Buu twice, and is able to tell that SSJ kids doesn't stand a chance against Buu.

I can understand why people have Gotenks weaker than the SSJ kids in his base form when following the regular multipliers for fusions, though.