Does anybody go with Freeza>Base Saiyans>Kaioshin

[withheldforprivacy]

King Kai did not know Freeza's full power. So, why should Kaioshin know it?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Because Kaioshin exist before King Kai and Frieza.

 

[ahill1]

I doubt Toriyama would have Kaioshin stating he could one-shot Freeza if it was only a reference to 1st form Freeza. I also don't like to have Kaioshin in awe with base Vegeta's power if it was as weak as Freeza, an irrelevant guy like this.

Kaioshin >> base Saiyans >>> Freeza it's what I'd go.

base Saiyans > Kaioshin is kinda of hard with Kaioshin being above Piccolo.

 

[Papasmurf]

I view it as another instance of Toriyama massively overrating old powers when they fapped off Freeza, similar to Ginyu or Cell-arc Gohan in the new Future Trunks shit.

Kaioshin > base Saiyans >> Freeza is what I side with

 

[ahill1]

I view it as another instance of Toriyama massively overrating old powers when they fapped off Freeza, similar to Ginyu or Cell-arc Gohan in the new Future Trunks shit.

Kami also brought up Trunks killing Freeza in the Mecha Freeza saga as something impressive when Piccolo could probably do it instantly too

 

[Papasmurf]

Freeza is very durable. Like Nappa. Piccolo would just say it'd take forever

 

[ahill1]

Freeza is very durable. Like Nappa. Piccolo would just say it'd take forever

When Freeza was impressed at Goku being stronger than Ginyu, do you think Toriyama was really thinking Ginyu > Vegeta and Piccolo?

 

[Papasmurf]

I think Toriyama somehow took Vegeta speculating Goku and Ginyu to be equals to suddenly apply here, or something. There's... just logically no way to make sense of this shit after he made Freeza's second form higher than a million and Ginyu far weaker than 180,000.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah it'd pretty dumb for him to think Ginyu > Piccolo when he just put Piccolo fighting evenly with a guy stated to be above 1 million. Unless he forgot this statement or Ginyu's inferiority over 180,000. This pretty much killed all the events to me.

 

[Papasmurf]

If I had the time I'd literally write a gag manga where Ginyu jumps back into Freeza's ship while still a frog, flies over to King Cold and takes his body to gain power in the millions or something. That shit is almost as stupid as Tenshinhan dividing his already low power into 4 to try to beat a superior Goku

 

[Future Warrior]

Ginyu was obviously using only a tenth of his power against Goku

 

[Papasmurf]

Ginyu is only that strong when he wants to be

 

[ahill1]

If I had the time I'd literally write a gag manga where Ginyu jumps back into Freeza's ship while still a frog, flies over to King Cold and takes his body to gain power in the millions or something. That shit is almost as stupid as Tenshinhan dividing his already low power into 4 to try to beat a superior Goku

Lol and the worst of Tenshinhan's case was him saying "Goku, do you think you can beat us 4", when he was already aware of his weakness Unless he was bluffing?

 

[ahill1]

Ginyu was obviously using only a tenth of his power against Goku

And that'd make him at best on par with 2nd form Freeza

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, he even said "I didn't think you'd figure me out so thoroughly" or something when Goku beat him. So he was aware of this weakness and still thought he'd win no matter what?

This is even sadder considering he himself resorted to blowing up the ring in the last tournament to win, and Goku still figured a way around the trap he set. Suuuuuure Goku'd give up just cuz Tenshithands cut his power in 4 pieces...

 

[Future Warrior]

Ginyu was obviously using only a tenth of his power against Goku

And that'd make him at best on par with 2nd form Freeza

Oops, I meant a tenth of his 1/10 of his power

 

[ahill1]

And that was after Goku told him he found two weakness...

 

[Papasmurf]

So Freeza was factoring in Galu's Kaioken x 10 when he said that?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I doubt Toriyama would have Kaioshin stating he could one-shot Freeza if it was only a reference to 1st form Freeza. I also don't like to have Kaioshin in awe with base Vegeta's power if it was as weak as Freeza, an irrelevant guy like this.

Kaioshin >> base Saiyans >>> Freeza it's what I'd go.

base Saiyans > Kaioshin is kinda of hard with Kaioshin being above Piccolo.

But, in Yo Son manga, Freeza's 1st Form picture is shown when Tarble mentions Abo/Cado being equal to Freeza. That shows that AT
doesn't always have to mean FP 4th Form Freeza.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I don't think the Yo Son Goku manga was written by Toriyama.