Does Light Grenade have to be hugely amplified?

[withheldforprivacy]

Piccolo didn't have much time to charge it. It was like the semi charged blast Vegeta used against Recoome.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It has to be 5x because reasons according to someone.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I've always thought a x2.5 to x3 gap would be sufficient for Cell to tank Piccolo's attack.

 

[sei'taer]

After the fight with 17, it could have been a huge multiplier and still not hurt cell.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

It has to be big enough for Piccolo who is completely fodder against Cell and still thought that his light grenade can destroy Cell. Honestly, 5x is too much.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

It doesn't, really.
All it has to be is just strong enough to freak out 17.

 

[Papasmurf]

It's gotta be stronger than the attack #17 blocked with his barrier, which was implied to be capable of fatally wounding him. Sounds like a better amp than Piccolo's other shitty attacks to me

After the fight with 17, it could have been a huge multiplier and still not hurt cell.

Piccolo at his peak still wasn't decisively stronger than #17 and he was still standing despite the latter never losing any strength, so he can't have been that tired. Past his peak for sure, but not terribly like Goku was after Cell. For him to have fell in power considerably he'd have to have taken debilitating damage from Cell, which I doubt happened until after his attack was tanked

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

It's gotta be stronger than the attack #17 blocked with his barrier, which was implied to be capable of fatally wounding him. Sounds like a better amp than Piccolo's other shitty attacks to me

It was more implied it would wound 17 a lot, because he wouldn't be able to avoid all those blasts.

Piccolo at his peak still wasn't decisively stronger than #17 and he was still standing despite the latter never losing any strength, so he can't have been that tired. Past his peak for sure, but not terribly like Goku was after Cell. For him to have fell in power considerably he'd have to have taken debilitating damage from Cell, which I doubt happened until after his attack was tanked

Piccolo was kicked around by Cell prior to firing that blast at him, though, and he was out of breath when charging up the Light Grenade blast.

 

[Papasmurf]

He was already out of breath when he stopped fighting #17. Cell also only hit him twice prior to him firing the blast, wasn't really that much of a beating.

The other attack's effect is mainly up for speculation since it was neutralized. However, Piccolo does say you're finished when using it, which either implies a fatal injury or at least a very severe one that would allow Piccolo to deal a fatal injury afterwards. Piccolo's attack on Cell was enough that #17 doesn't even try to guard against it with the barrier, so it'd at least be stronger than that.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

He had some trouble standing up after Cell hit him twice.

That' just an usual battle cry.
Why use a barrier, when he can just dodge it?
It was aimed at Cell anyway, who was 17's enemy too, so using a barrier would probably only just weaken the attack meant to kill Cell.

 

[Papasmurf]

Which is what generally happens after taking hits from a stronger foe. But him taking so much damage that he lost 30% of his power from just those two hits isn't implied at all. Semi after taking a much longer beating and barely crawling out of the water still wasn't down a great portion of his strength.

The radius of a barrier would be a few feet while the blast covered most of the island. Hardly a significant portion. The blast's scale and it leading #18 to believe a Cell stronger than those two died from it in general implies it's beyond #17's ability to defend, but then the limits of his barrier ability would have to be discussed and fuck that tangent

That' just an usual battle cry.

And one that's supported by #17 deciding not to take chances and resorting to a barrier. At the very least, it'd deal hefty damage and put the battle in Piccolo's favor as I said.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Nothing regarding the percentages of Piccolo or Semi-Cell's leftover staminas is implied, only that they are panting and have a hard time recovering.

The barrier probably has some sort of a limit, because otherwise 17'd just have it up constantly and be esentially invincible to Piccolo.

And one that's supported by #17 deciding not to take chances and resorting to a barrier. At the very least, it'd deal hefty damage and put the battle in Piccolo's favor as I said.

17 couldn't avoid those blasts, that's the point of that attack.

 

[Papasmurf]

Nothing regarding the percentages of Piccolo or Semi-Cell's leftover staminas is implied, only that they are panting and have a hard time recovering.

We also know it isn't by enough that people note their drop in power like Cell after regenerating from Goku's Kamehameha, or something similar.

The barrier probably has some sort of a limit, because otherwise 17'd just have it up constantly and be esentially invincible to Piccolo.

true

And one that's supported by #17 deciding not to take chances and resorting to a barrier. At the very least, it'd deal hefty damage and put the battle in Piccolo's favor as I said.

17 couldn't avoid those blasts, that's the point of that attack.

And they'd still deal heavy damage unless he put up his barrier, which was something you acknowledged a while back. What's the issue?

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

That's because they all thought Cell was dead prior to regenerating his top in that situation.

 

[Papasmurf]

Freeza: notes Nail's drop in power

Gohan: notes Goku's drop in power after KKx20

Neither is near death

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

It doesn't have to be stated.
In that instance especially, stating that Piccolo's stamina has dropped would undermine the effect of Cell tanking that blast.
But it's constantly shown, logically, that beating up will lower stamina.

 

[Papasmurf]

Toriyama having qualms like those is speculation. Furthermore, stuff like that's been stated or shown before, such as Piccolo losing stamina from his battle with Goku and regenerating his arm before using his explosion, which was still hyped as his best attack. Freeza blocking Goku's Kamehameha also took place after Freeza damaged him, which the author was quick to have him note. But there's no real evidence indicating that Piccolo and Cell lost a load of stamina because they were damaged, only that they were damaged - and Piccolo's beating was much shorter.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Both Piccolo and Cell's panting implies their stamina has gone down.
Piccolo's stamina is already noted to be going down by 17 before, so a beating from Cell would only decrease it further.

 

[Papasmurf]

And it wasn't noted to be a significant drop either way. You haven't fulfilled your burden of proof showing it was so significant it should have been noted like those other instances, and played author's intent - all things that don't really help your argument.

Piccolo isn't shown or stated to be more hampered by his stamina loss than Vegeta after being kicked by Perfect Cell and sent flying, to which he displayed the exact same reaction of panting. This isn't really shown to interfere with his Final Flash being as powerful as it is.

 

[sei'taer]

Piccolo at his peak still wasn't decisively stronger than #17 and he was still standing despite the latter never losing any strength, so he can't have been that tired. Past his peak for sure, but not terribly like Goku was after Cell. For him to have fell in power considerably he'd have to have taken debilitating damage from Cell, which I doubt happened until after his attack was tanked

We have many instances of getting punched by a massive power gap to cause significant damage. Hell it happens later in this saga with gohan vs cell. And cell is presented as being so much stronger that it's considered absolutely hopeless without the remote to turn off the androids.

Yet piccolo still thinks (and is shocked when it doesn't) that the light grenade has a chance. There has to be a significant amp there.