Does Light Grenade have to be hugely amplified?

[withheldforprivacy]

It has to be big enough for Piccolo who is completely fodder against Cell and still thought that his light grenade can destroy Cell. Honestly, 5x is too much.

Was Piccolo sure that attack would kill Cell? After firing it, he wasn't shown with a smiling face or anything. His shock at the aftermath could be
at the fact that Cell was completely uninjured.

 

[ahill1]

Piccolo was already pretty weakened before he fired off this attack. He struggled to even get up, that's definitely weakened.

And it wasn't noted to be a significant drop either way. You haven't fulfilled your burden of proof showing it was so significant it should have been noted like those other instances, and played author's intent - all things that don't really help your argument.

Piccolo isn't shown or stated to be more hampered by his stamina loss than Vegeta after being kicked by Perfect Cell and sent flying, to which he displayed the exact same reaction of panting. This isn't really shown to interfere with his Final Flash being as powerful as it is.

Few differences. Vegeta only took Cell's kick which he easily recovered from in mid air. He didn't struggle to get up like Piccolo. Vegeta had much more power reserved, seeing that even after the Final Flash, he could still attack Cell with that rapid Chi blast fire.

And why the need to commenting on Piccolo's power when not even a fresh Piccolo would make a difference? :?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

It's gotta be stronger than the attack #17 blocked with his barrier, which was implied to be capable of fatally wounding him. Sounds like a better amp than Piccolo's other shitty attacks to me

That would be because of many small blasts doing additive damage, it wasn't a greatly amplified single blast.

 

[kriss-]

It was strong enough to kill Android 17, but by what degree is unknown.

 

[ahill1]

I don't see a reason to have Imperfect Cell more than 2x stronger than Piccolo/17, honestly.

 

[Papasmurf]

Piccolo at his peak still wasn't decisively stronger than #17 and he was still standing despite the latter never losing any strength, so he can't have been that tired. Past his peak for sure, but not terribly like Goku was after Cell. For him to have fell in power considerably he'd have to have taken debilitating damage from Cell, which I doubt happened until after his attack was tanked

We have many instances of getting punched by a massive power gap to cause significant damage. Hell it happens later in this saga with gohan vs cell. And cell is presented as being so much stronger that it's considered absolutely hopeless without the remote to turn off the androids.

Yet piccolo still thinks (and is shocked when it doesn't) that the light grenade has a chance. There has to be a significant amp there.

I do think Piccolo was injured further, I just don't think he lost any significant portions of his power to those two punches, although he was injured. He also apparently didn't take as much damage as, say, Dabra or Gohan after getting beat around by Fat Boo, from which they took a while to emerge from where they were sent flying to before attacking him again.

And it wasn't noted to be a significant drop either way. You haven't fulfilled your burden of proof showing it was so significant it should have been noted like those other instances, and played author's intent - all things that don't really help your argument.

Piccolo isn't shown or stated to be more hampered by his stamina loss than Vegeta after being kicked by Perfect Cell and sent flying, to which he displayed the exact same reaction of panting. This isn't really shown to interfere with his Final Flash being as powerful as it is.

Few differences. Vegeta only took Cell's kick which he easily recovered from in mid air. He didn't struggle to get up like Piccolo. Vegeta had much more power reserved, seeing that even after the Final Flash, he could still attack Cell with that rapid Chi blast fire.

Vegeta was sent flying a mile back before barely stopping himself mid-flight after crashing through many rocks. Wouldn't call that "an easy recovery," nor are the two all that comparable since Piccolo landed on the ground while Vegeta was sent upwards. Vegeta's also panting for multiple panels.

Vegeta uses the latter move much more in general. Doesn't really show he had more ki reserves, although it could be considered I guess.

And why the need to commenting on Piccolo's power when not even a fresh Piccolo would make a difference? :?

For the reasons many othher people were quoted when they were weakened prior to an attack 1

 

[ahill1]

He struggled to even get up. That's definitely weak imo. If Piccolo were already that weakened his attack wouldn't be as powerful as if he were at full power.

 

[Papasmurf]

It can't be as strong as it was at full power, the same way Piccolo Daimao's second blast was weaker than the first. But I think people are looking too far into Piccolo staggering a bit after the second hit when they say he lost like a third of his power. Then Piccolo Daimao definitely lost a lot of his power as well after Goku beat up his initial young self and Cell's Kamehameha against Gohan was significantly weaker than his fresh self, which isn't really implied.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta was sent flying a mile back before barely stopping himself mid-flight after crashing through many rocks. Wouldn't call that "an easy recovery," nor are the two all that comparable since Piccolo landed on the ground while Vegeta was sent upwards. Vegeta's also panting for multiple panels.

But you have to remember Piccolo just came from an all out fight with an opponent on his level. It doesn't change the fact that Vegeta still had power to recover in midair while Piccolo struggles to get up. Cell was toying with Vegeta and threw a hold back kick that wasn't enough to make Vegeta eat dirt.

For the reasons many othher people were quoted when they were weakened prior to an attack

I just don't see why they would comment on Piccolo's power when #18 or #16 already knew he wasn't at 100% #16 even asked #17 to run.

 

[Papasmurf]

Vegeta was sent flying a mile back before barely stopping himself mid-flight after crashing through many rocks. Wouldn't call that "an easy recovery," nor are the two all that comparable since Piccolo landed on the ground while Vegeta was sent upwards. Vegeta's also panting for multiple panels.

But you have to remember Piccolo just came from an all out fight with an opponent on his level. It doesn't change the fact that Vegeta still had power to recover in midair while Piccolo struggles to get up. Cell was toying with Vegeta and threw a hold back kick that wasn't enough to make Vegeta eat dirt.

Already showed how Piccolo didn't lose that much energy because 100% Piccolo is only >= #17, yet the tired Piccolo is still standing ground against the same opponent.

For the reasons many othher people were quoted when they were weakened prior to an attack

I just don't see why they would comment on Piccolo's power when #18 or #16 already knew he wasn't at 100% #16 even asked #17 to run.

#16 with his power radar would likely catch a dramatic drop in ki the same way Vegeta saw how low Gohan's ki fell after using his Masenko, and Nail and Goku were noted to lose power in their battles against Freeza. I'm just saying it supports Piccolo not losing a notable portion of his ki from those two hits.

 

[ahill1]

#16 with his power radar would likely catch a dramatic drop in ki the same way Vegeta saw how low Gohan's ki fell after using his Masenko, and Nail and Goku were noted to lose power in their battles against Freeza. I'm just saying it supports Piccolo not losing a notable portion of his ki from those two hits.

But like I said, there's no reason to state it if even a 100% Piccolo wouldn't have a chance. #16 doesn't really have to state. Even more when it was shown to be that way (Piccolo barely being able to stand).

 

[Papasmurf]

Many other instances of a character being weakened prior to firing an attack have been stated in some form. #16 not doing so here tells me the damage Piccolo sustained to his power wasn't as significant, or it'd have been stated much like Vegeta being weakened both after Goku's Kamehameha and after using the power ball would've been imo.

 

[ahill1]

Do you think Vegeta (post Moon ball) lost more power than Piccolo (post Imperfect Cell beating)?

 

[Papasmurf]

I think he already lost a similar amount of power after Kaioken x3 Goku kicked his ass, as he showed similar reactions (bleeding, staggering). He then was stated to be weakened after he took the Kamehameha and then further after the power ball, and after reverting to base form he took a while to beat even Gohan, who while enraged was likely way under 10,000.

So yeah, he has to be way more weakened.

 

[ahill1]

I meant in relation to his maximum power, but 'kay.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, for Vegeta whose peak was 18,000 to have a hard time beating Gohan he'd have to have fallen in power like 3x at least imo, no way Piccolo lost that much power. The Power Ball also was draining enough that Vegeta said he didn't want to use it if there was a moon and he didn't have to, so it was likely a large drop. Kaio also says Vegeta was weakened after the KHH, so that was significant as well.