Dr. Gero's Power Radar and his estimations

Evil Vegeta

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
3,428
I got dat itch again.

This is probably the most mundane topic I've ever made. One thing I've always been interested in is how Gero measures power. You'd think his radar would function similarly to #16's or better, but it doesn't seem to be anywhere as precise.

So what I'd like to do is go through every example where it was utilized and try to assess what he was seeing.

Exhibit #1: Yamcha:

meYCG0O.jpg

3OMZLOR.jpg


No.20: “A human with an unusually high energy rating is heading this way…Is the search system malfunctioning?”
No.19: “It’s not a malfunction, No.20. I’m noting the same energy.”
No.20: “It greatly surpasses human data…”
No.19: “We’ve found him already…Son Goku.”

No.19: “No, it is not Son Goku…He doesn’t match the data. There’s a 96% chance this is the human known as Yamcha…”
No.20: “At any rate, we’ll be able to obtain a large amount of energy.”

We see Gero's radar quickly detect Yamcha once he reacts to the woman's scream. The power they detected was said to be above human data, so we can deduce that this level of power is far beyond any calculations Gero had for humans. For him to believe it was Goku tells us that it was at a level that only seemed possible for someone like Goku to reach.

The fact that Gero considered it a large amount of energy doesn't really tell us much other than the fact that he's not a weakling. Yamcha is nowhere near Gero, so the energy could've have been that significant. Gero and #19 weren't expecting to fight anyone, leaving me to believe Gero only saw it as free energy that he was better off absorbing than not absorbing it.

Exhibit #2: The Power Radar's range

yWOYUnY.jpg

ZQc1FjC.jpg


It doesn't seem to detect anyone else until they get close to the area, which leads me to believe it requires them to be in the immediate vicinity to alert the radar. No one was powered-up, but I don't get the impression that any of them was suppressed right there, either.

The same happens when they're searching for Gero later as well:

bw4i71h.jpg


At the very least, we can see that the radar appears to lack the range of #16's, which can pick up on power from a good distance.

As good as #16's radar is, we can see that power can also go undetected:

gCAPPhe.jpg


When Goku is about to take Vegeta and Trunks to Kami's Lookout, we have #16 saying he was unable to feel Goku's power. Now this could've been because he was suppressed or because being on Kami's Lookout would've taken him out of the radar's range. Either answer is good.

Exhibit #3: Calculations and power measurements

This is where the meat of the post will be. Just what is Gero seeing when he's assessing one's power? And how does this go along with his calculations?

IkvjA3F.jpg


Goku: “I see…But did you spy on the battle on Planet Namek too?”
No.20: “There was no need. By the battle with Vegeta and co., we had already completely grasped your power and techniques. We calculated that no matter how much you improved afterwards, considering your age, you wouldn’t have any increases as enormous as you had before…”

Gero was set on Goku not being able to improve as much as he did during the Saiyan saga based on his age. That would mean whatever increase he factored in would've been much lower than the increase Goku received from Kaio's training. Goku's full-power in Base alone would've eclipsed Gero's calculations...nevermind Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan is the main focus, though.

jCg0S1x.jpg


No.20: “I see…You seem to have achieved a truly considerable power-up. It’s a strange technique…This greatly surpasses our calculated figures…”
No.20: “However, this isn’t anything great enough to give us reason to fear. It’s still within a level which even No.19 is more than capable of defeating, and naturally that goes for myself as well…”

Now the way it's worded in Herms' translation makes it sound as if Gero's radar is estimating the power of Super Saiyan rather than reading it at a precise level. He says it's "within a level" #19 can handle, which comes off as around or close to more so than anything.

rdTcYfC.jpg


No.20: “…Kuh…! Th-this power up greatly exceeds my estimated data…Th-this is bad. Like this, No.19 will run out of energy before he steals any power…”

One of the theories I've had for ages was that Gero's radar begins randomizing power levels once the power goes far beyond his estimations. When Goku was beating down #19, there was never any indication that Goku increased his power even more while being transformed. Gero is still commenting on Super Saiyan greatly exceeding his estimations. I believe the overall increase was never accurately measured because it was far beyond what he originally calculated Goku's true power to be.

J5FqJ1x.jpg

oawSEkg.jpg


No.20: “Alright! No.19’s maximum power rating has greatly increased from what it was before! In contrast, Son Goku’s energy has fallen remarkably…!”

No.20: “You’re so greedy…Even though you sucked so much energy out of Son Goku, and have raised your absolute power…”

Even though the absurd increase from Super Saiyan seemed to screw with his power measurements, he was able to see #19's boost in power and Goku's significant drop in power. So we can give the radar some credit here. Now how would Gero have been able to accurately measure #19's boost when he couldn't do the same to Super Saiyan? Well, he most likely didn't. Gero knew right off the bat that #19's power was far beyond what it was, but does that mean he knew exactly how strong he was?

After Vegeta becomes a Super Saiyan:

DaRNdG8.jpg


No.20: “Let’s stop the nonsense at that. Just changing like that naturally won’t make you a match for us androids. Just like Son Goku earlier…”

Gero doesn't really care. In fact, he seems to believe Vegeta won't fare any better than Goku did.

x73Oke6.jpg


This reaction look familiar?

x73Oke6.jpg

ySf418W.jpg


Not much different than the reaction he had when Goku landed his first few attacks on #19. Gero seemed awfully confident initially...then his entire tune changed once the fight started. So like Goku, it seems like he was unable to accurately gauge Super Saiyan Vegeta.

Immediately after Vegeta finished #19 off:

Km5bURG.jpg


So he's talking out of ass while admitting that he miscalculated Vegeta.

QlvRUDy.jpg


Since Gero was able to see that Super Saiyan Goku's power dropped, it seems like the same would apply here. The bluff was just so good that he didn't want to take any chances. Anyway, this was just more of a Vegeta thing.

When Gero has the choice of returning to his lab, he decides against it and opts to take on Vegeta himself:

z0j3Jto.jpg


No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”

Something that's been talked about for ages, it seems. At one point, I considered the possibility that Gero applied a drastic power-up to all of them to reach this conclusion, but I doubt it. It looks as if he's going off of whatever power he's detecting in that moment.

7NW9G2u.jpg


No.20: “So then…Who’s energy shall I take?...So Piccolo’s the most powerful after Vegeta, huh?...”

Seems obvious enough that Piccolo was the strongest after Vegeta.

After absorbing Piccolo's energy, Gero thinks absorbing the same amount of power from Piccolo again will make him powerful enough to take Vegeta down:

5WYK65Q.jpg


No.20: “Don’t interfere, he says…Kukkukkuh…Alright, if I drain [Piccolo]'s energy again, then [I’ll win] against Vegeta…”

*An example of the original quote getting the point across better*

Draining the 2nd strongest guy and draining him again right after is an unlikely scenario no one could've predicted, after all. For Gero to be willing to ignore the others tells me Piccolo's energy ended up being more than expected, or, based on his data, Piccolo was so far ahead of everyone that 2 helpings of his energy would've made theirs obsolete. Piccolo would've been easy pickings for him (in his mind) there since he was fighting alone, so it wouldn't have been logical to assume he'd have a chance to absorb the others with Vegeta standing there, anyway.

fqaUhjw.jpg


No.20: “Im-impossible! There’s no way I wouldn’t be able to defeat him! After all, I’ve added his energy to my own…!”

Self-explanatory. Gero didn't think Piccolo was on his level, so with his energy, that should've been a given. Well, looks like he was wrong.

cDSaS1J.jpg

zndY9rF.jpg


Piccolo: “Commit this to memory: when we fight, we amplify what you guys call ‘energy’, causing it to explode. That’s why the energy you stole from me earlier doesn't matter…”

No.20: “W-why you…To think that even Piccolo had increased his power this much…”

So like the Super Saiyans, Piccolo's true power ended up surpassing Gero's calculations to the point where he was left clueless.

Overall, Gero's power radar seems to be one of the most flawed devices in the series. I guess you can't blame him too much because Namek had tons of ridiculous power-ups and he missed all of them. Then again, the Android he considered a failure had a far more effective radar, so yeah, Gero's decision making sucks.

TL:DR: Gero's power radar is ass.

Hope you guys enjoyed the post.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
65,717
Age
28
Wow, incredible breakdown man. That's the first "long" post I've fully read in a very long time, it was excellent.
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,401
Good breakdown, but I think the "greatly exceeds my calculated data" just means that his estimations were wrong, not that the equipment can't handle a power of that magnitude imo.
 

Evil Vegeta

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
3,428
Thanks.

The reason why I believe that is because he basically repeated himself between Goku transforming and Goku thrashing #19. He went from thinking #19 could take on this new power to believing #19 would lose if the fight continued because the power-up was too far above his calculations. On top of that, outside of accurately seeing Goku's drop in power, this guy was never right about anything.
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,401
Don't you think it's possible that this case is a similar situation to #16 reading Cell at a level < SSJG2 Vegeta yet this latter being stomped right afterwards? Nobody suggests #16's radar was broken in that situation, just that Cell was showcasing basically nothing of his powers when just standing around... likewise, #20 could of read Goku SSJ at a level whithin #19's reach when Goku was just standing, and yet was wrong because Goku' power when fighting is simply ahead of his standing power, or something like this.
 

Evil Vegeta

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
3,428
ahill1 said:
Don't you think it's possible that this case is a similar situation to #16 reading Cell at a level < SSJG2 Vegeta yet this latter being stomped right afterwards? Nobody suggests #16's radar was broken in that situation, just that Cell was showcasing basically nothing of his powers when just standing around... likewise, #20 could of read Goku SSJ at a level whithin #19's reach when Goku was just standing, and yet was wrong because Goku' power when fighting is simply ahead of his standing power, or something like this.

Cell was pretty suppressed there and even says he was warming up the entire time. That would at least explain why he wasn't showing much of his power. Goku and Vegeta weren't.

Also, #16 was actually shown to be accurate on a few occasions. He could tell that Piccolo rivaled both Androids, knew that his power was equal to Cell's, and knew that Super Saiyan Vegeta was already capable of fighting Semi-Cell before the fight even began. Gero appeared to be referring to the
power-up or "increase" in general rather than an additional increase after the transformation.

No.20: “I see…You seem to have achieved a truly considerable power-up. It’s a strange technique…This greatly surpasses our calculated figures
…”
No.20: “…Kuh…! Th-this power up greatly exceeds my estimated data…Th-this is bad. Like this, No.19 will run out of energy before he steals any power…”

The fact that he repeated himself leads me to believe he never had a true grasp on Super Saiyan at any point. It was just too far above his calculations for him to accurately assess. I feel like if Goku's data changed between transforming and attacking, Gero would've at least said he was even stronger than expected. Interpretations vary.

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
He was right about making a Katchin gate :idk

Shit. Well, I guess making a door that was above the humans deserves some recognition.
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,401
Evil Vegeta said:
ahill1 said:
Don't you think it's possible that this case is a similar situation to #16 reading Cell at a level < SSJG2 Vegeta yet this latter being stomped right afterwards? Nobody suggests #16's radar was broken in that situation, just that Cell was showcasing basically nothing of his powers when just standing around... likewise, #20 could of read Goku SSJ at a level whithin #19's reach when Goku was just standing, and yet was wrong because Goku' power when fighting is simply ahead of his standing power, or something like this.

Cell was pretty suppressed there and even says he was warming up the entire time. That would at least explain why he wasn't showing much of his power. Goku and Vegeta weren't.

Also, #16 was actually shown to be accurate on a few occasions. He could tell that Piccolo rivaled both Androids, knew that his power was equal to Cell's, and knew that Super Saiyan Vegeta was already capable of fighting Semi-Cell before the fight even began. Gero appeared to be referring to the
power-up or "increase" in general rather than an additional increase after the transformation.

No.20: “I see…You seem to have achieved a truly considerable power-up. It’s a strange technique…This greatly surpasses our calculated figures
…”
No.20: “…Kuh…! Th-this power up greatly exceeds my estimated data…Th-this is bad. Like this, No.19 will run out of energy before he steals any power…”

The fact that he repeated himself leads me to believe he never had a true grasp on Super Saiyan at any point. It was just too far above his calculations for him to accurately assess. I feel like if Goku's data changed between transforming and attacking, Gero would've at least said he was even stronger than expected. Interpretations vary.

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
He was right about making a Katchin gate :idk

Shit. Well, I guess making a door that was above the humans deserves some recognition.
I feel like #20 got a reading on his radar when Goku transformed into SSJ -- even if that reading was wrong --, otherwise I don't think he'd look confident that his big boy #19 could manage something against Goku, since Goku's SSJ power would have been pure guesswork to him. Although it's possible it got a reading but it was the most the radar could read without maxing out and therefore Goku's reading should be beyond that. For example:

Goku SSJ (showing up on Gero's radar) - 3,000 [it actually max out at 3,000, so Goku's current reading should be far above that, like 5,000 or so]

Although, even if Goku wasn't suppressed there (since there're things pointing out to him not being able to suppress his SSJ power before the RoSaT), I think it's possible Gero's radar measured Goku's BP considerably lower initially due to him being just standing around and the reading actually increased when he started fighting or something like this. Granted that Gero could've said something like "Oh, it's even higher than the reading I got before", but I think it's fine to think he chose a more general way of expressing Goku's powers that wouldn't flat out utter the words of Goku being stronger than before. Just my interpretation though.
 

Evil Vegeta

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
3,428
That's pretty much what I think of his radar. Anything not too far above his estimated calculations would probably give him a more accurate reading. Something far above that like Super Saiyan would probably be out of range. I always went along with that because I feel his data had to be flawed for him to think Piccolo+Tien+Gohan+Krillin=Enough energy to stop Vegeta.

#16 radar seems to calculate (ie calculated that his power was about equal to Cell's), but otherwise seems much better. Piccolo's new power was enough to make him come off as an unknown to #16 when he was fighting Cell. Later when he went to full-power to fight #17, #16 said that he wasn't Piccolo. Makes me wonder if this was because of power alone or because of the assimilation. Vegeta changed significantly, but #16 only comments on his power increasing a lot within the past couple days.

Tien went from "So this is Goku as a Super Saiyan" to practically shitting himself while watching Goku fight. So with that, your interpretation is definitely valid.
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,401
Evil Vegeta said:
I always went along with that because I feel his data had to be flawed for him to think Piccolo+Tien+Gohan+Krillin=Enough energy to stop Vegeta.
Meh, I could make that work when using a SSJ multiplier far below 50x, but the Gero + 2 suppressed Piccolos is the actual headache man... that shit can't conceivably work unless you wiggle it a lot... that's why I think it's possible that Gero's statement about those earthlings with their combined power being enough to stop Vegeta might be BS as well. Either, like you said, Gero couldn't accurately measure SSJ Vegeta's powers or he was desperately trying to find a way to win without having to awaken the androids.
Evil Vegeta said:
Piccolo's new power was enough to make him come off as an unknown to #16 when he was fighting Cell. Later when he went to full-power to fight #17, #16 said that he wasn't Piccolo. Makes me wonder if this was because of power alone or because of the assimilation. Vegeta changed significantly, but #16 only comments on his power increasing a lot within the past couple days.
Yeah, that's pretty interesting... considering that he didn't seem to state something like this when Vegeta arrived to fight Semi Cell with a power already faaar beyond Piccolo's like you said and that he still insisted he wasn't Piccolo even when Piccolo was right in front of him, then I can only make sense of that assuming that Piccolo's chi signature also changed considerably as well, kind of if it had a different feel over it... so maybe #16's radar can also get a sense to someone's type of chi like the Z senshi in general can hence they knowing it's a certain warrior upon feeling their chi? Anyway, that's a pretty interesting question.
 

Evil Vegeta

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
3,428
You know, I always thought it was funny how #17 and #18 didn't have radars. They only seemed to have established data since #17 said Vegeta was well above Gero's data during his fight with #18...while being unaware of the power-up (only talks about Vegeta looking different than before) from Super Saiyan. None of them had any data on Trunks.

In Gero's lab, #17 says this:

D9uxli7.jpg


The Anime scene is more thorough. It actually shows him scanning #16 before making the statement:

yCQ5MYt.png

y9QU2ej.png

nloHWtK.png


None of them had a clue #16 even existed, so it seems odd that #17 would actually have any data on him. It was probably incomplete data Gero uploaded to their databases when #16 was in the midst of being created. Outdated information would probably explain why #17 got an inferior reading from him.
 

Pyro

Elite
Staff member
Admin
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
9,061
Gero could've been counting on his absorption to beat Vegeta. Absorbing the other guys' power would've been enough to get him within range of capably fighting Vegeta, and then he'd absorb more power to actually surpass him.

Gero (initial): 225
- post-absorbing Piccolo: 235
- expected output after everybody: 400?
SSJ Vegeta: 500

Fucker.
 

Evil Vegeta

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
3,428
Just imagine how different things would've been if he snuck one of his spy robots onto Goku's ship.
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,963
The Rosat GAINZ would've been ridiculously insane had that been the case
 
Top