Dragonball Chain

[kriss-]

Doing this for funsies to prove that it isn't that hard to construct a chain for the alternative perspective.

Goku lies right to Piccolo’s face and says that even as a Super Saiyan 3, Gotenks and Innocent Boo would be stronger anyways.

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8
Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?”
Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…”

Gotenks (Expected) > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo > Goku SSj3 (Lie)



However, later during the series we learn that Goku wanted the boys to find a way to win ‘one way or another’; this implies uncertainty and suggests that power on its own was not the only factor. Additionally, Goku establishes himself as being stronger then Boo.

Goku: “No…I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”

Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”

Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo



Despite all the ooh’s and ahh’s, we’re never actually told whether or not Gotenks SSj Pre-Rosat actually surpassed Innocent Boo, but we do have an implication inside the Rosat that tells us he didn’t. For now, it’s indeterminable.



Goten and Trunks do not notice a difference in Majin Boo’s power ‘now’ in comparison to where it was beforehand, although Piccolo is aware that Boo did a power-burst upon arriving.

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P5.5-6
Trunks: “Huh!? That’s Majin Boo!?”
Goten: “He-he really has changed…”
Piccolo: “It’s not just his appearance…Everything about him is definitely greater than before…”

Super Boo (Powered Up) > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo



Gotenks Base Post is stated to have surpassed Gotenks SSj Pre-Rosat by Trunks and Piccolo. Although Piccolo isn’t reliable, Trunks’s opinion is still considered factual because Goten did not disregard it.

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P2.6-9, P3.3
Context: after Goten and Trunks reach Super Saiyan 3 as Gotenks for the first time
Trunks: “…But its weak point is time…See…We’re only able to become it for about 5 minutes…Then even our Fusion comes undone and we turn back into two people…”
Goten: “That’s no problem. We’ll become that way right off the bat! Even with just 5 minutes, we’ll definitely be able to take care of [Boo]!

Super Boo (Powered Up) > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre-Rosat



However, as we learn, Gotenks is nothing compared to Majin Boo. This is likely due to the fact that Goten and Trunks did not factor in Super Boo’s power increase when he first arrived.

Chapter: 490 (DBZ 296), P4.1
Context: after Boo smacks Gotenks
Gotenks: “Heh…hehen…! You’re pretty tough, aincha?...W-well, I pla-planned on that…!”

Super Boo (Powered Up) > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



Surprisingly, Gotenks SSj Post is able to somewhat manage something against the powered-up version of Super Boo, albeit, he isn’t able to finish him off completely, he does manage to do something.

Chapter: 492 (DBZ 298), P3.3
Context: after Gotenks blows Boo up with the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack
Piccolo: “There’s no time to relax! Majin Boo will regenerate! Burn up all the scattered pieces of flesh! I’ll help too!”

Chapter: 492 (DBZ 298), P5.7
Context: after Boo regenerates from being hit with the Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack
Piccolo: “Shi…Shit…damn it! Rather than burn [the pieces of Boo’s body], we should have completely wiped them out with our ki…!”

Chapter: 492 (DBZ 298), P10.6
Context: after Piccolo blows up the entrance to the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “…You truly are strong…Unfortunately, not even Gotenks there could defeat you…However, no matter how strong you may be, it is now impossible for you to escape here, for the rest of your life…”

Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



Super Boo powers up to his full power in an attempt to escape from the Rosat. Gotenks tries to do it as a Super Saiyan, but fails, he requires Super Saiyan 3 to replicate Super Boo’s feat.

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P1.3
Context: following the above quote, Piccolo is of course immediately proved wrong
Piccolo: “Th-that’s un-unbelievable…! He opened a hole in the dimension with his tremendous ki power…! Th-this is bad…! He can escape.”

Super Boo (Full Power) =/= Gotenks SSj3 Post > Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



Piccolo makes a comment about Gotenks being the only one capable of giving Boo a tough time, although, this is based on a false pretense because Goku lied and said that he couldn’t defeat Majin Boo. As a result, Gotenks falsely believes himself to be the strongest in the Universe. E.g. the definition of a long nose in Japanese culture is to be conceited; characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance. The only person up until that point that Gotenks could be referencing is Goku SSj3.

Piccolo: “N-no…He is weakened…I don’t know about physically, but he’s weakened a little mentally…! Th-this is the first time…that he’s fought someone strong like you…He’s feeling flustered by someone whose strength is at least on par with his own…”
Gotenks: “Dehhehheh! So in other words, Majin Boo’s freaked out, huh!? That’s right! My strength ain’t half-assed! I’m the best in the universe!”

Goku SSj3 > Gotenks SSj3 Post > Super Boo (Full Power) > Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



Even with Super Saiyan 3, Goku is still amazed by the amount of power that Gohan has managed to put forth. His potential is often regarded as the highest, so it would be safe to determine that he is both stronger then Gotenks and Goku by a fairly good margin.

Chapter:[/u] 488 (DBZ 294), P4.9, P5.1-2
Context: after Gohan’s unintentional display of power
Goku: “…Am…amazin’…So he really wasn’t just some regular dirty old geezer?...*talking to Kaioshin* ‘Do-dormant ability’…That’s a person’s true power, that they have hidden all along…Right?”
Kaioshin: “Ye-yeah…I-I think so…”
Goku: “Mu-must be…Man, Go-Gohan…Just how the heck much power is he hidin'?...”

Chapter: 498 (DBZ 304), P7.4-5
Context: after Boo disappears
Trunks: “Even if he really is still alive, it doesn’t matter! That jerk was helpless against Gohan! [Gohan] was about as strong as our Super Gotenks!”
Goten: “He was even stronger.”
Trunks: “Really? …Yeah…Just a little bit.”

Ultimate Gohan > Goku SSj3 > Gotenks SSj3 Post > Super Boo (Full Power) > Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



Super Boo remembers Goku according to the statement below, but despite sensing Ultimate Gohan from worlds away, he still makes the sober choice to absorb Gotenks in chase someone besides Gohan appeared. The only other candidate besides Gohan would be Goku, since he remembers him from before.

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Ultimate Gohan > Goku SSj3 > Gotenks SSj3 Post > Super Boo (Full Power) > Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



To make matters even more hopeless, the Elder Kaioshin tells Goku that; e.g ‘you’, can’t win against this current Majin Boo; ‘even’, if him and Gohan went at Boo together.

Additionally, Super Boo (Gotenks-Absorbed) has now established himself as being super to Goku SSj3.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P5.6
Context: when Goku shows up
Boo: “…What, did you plan on coming to save everyone? You idiot…Can’t you tell that I’m in a fundamentally different dimension than the Majin Boo from back then?”
Note: "back then" as in when he and Goku last fought.

Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P5.5
Context: Elder Kaioshin warning Goku about recklessly going to rescue Gohan from Gotenks-absorbed Boo
Elder Kaioshin: “I hate to say it, but I don’t think you could win against this current Majin Boo even if the two of you went at him together…”

Super Boo (Gotenks-Absorbed) > Ultimate Gohan > Goku SSj3 > Gotenks SSj3 Post > Super Boo (Full Power) > Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



Super Boo manages to absorb Gohan and he receives a power-up, making him even more of a threat then was before.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P13.1
Boo: “Fu…fuhahahaha…! This is great! I’ve powered up even more than before! And what’s more, now there’s no time limit!”

Super Boo (Gohan-Absorbed) > Super Boo (Gotenks-Absorbed) > Ultimate Gohan > Goku SSj3 > Gotenks SSj3 Post > Super Boo (Full Power) > Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre



Buff Boo is noted as being stronger then Super Boo; however, after he finishes his transformation and reverts to his Pure form, his Ki isn’t noted as going back down. Presumably, this brought him to the level of Super Saiyan 3 Goku, whom could only defeat with his highest battle power. Goku also makes the comment of saying that he will need to get much, much better in order to defeat him, so Pure Boo is actually stronger then Goku SSj3.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P2.3-7, P3.3
Context: after reverting to his South Kaioshin form, Boo continues to change
Vegeta: “…Look…He intends to perform another transformation…”
[ ]
Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P13.5
Context: as evil Boo reverts to his South Kaioshin form
Goku: “H-hey…Vegeta…His ki is increasing, ain’t it…!?”

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P7.4
Context: after Vegeta has the Earth brought back with the dragonballs
Goku: “Oh, I know! You’ll bring Gohan and Gotenks back to life so they can fight.”

Goku: “…You’re amazin’. You hung in there really well all on your own…This time, be reborn as a good guy…I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waitin'…And I’ll have gotten much, much better…See ya later!”

Super Boo (Gohan-Absorbed) > Super Boo (Gotenks-Absorbed) > Pure Boo > Ultimate Gohan > Goku SSj3 > Buff Boo > Gotenks SSj3 Post > Super Boo (Full Power) > Super Boo (Powered Up) > Gotenks SSj Post > Super Boo (Initial) =/= Innocent Boo =/= Gotenks Base Post > Gotenks SSj Pre

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

How the hell did Goku went from being same league with SSJ Gotenks pre to surpassing Boo?
Super Boo never power against Gotenks.

 

[kriss-]

a) Super Boo powered up to escape from the Rosat.
b) Gotenks SSj Pre wasn't proven to be anything special and his strength was based on a false pretense that was never proven to be true in the first place.

 

[Future Warrior]

They never noted a power increase though.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo: He broke out with his massive Ki.

Nuff for me.

 

[Future Warrior]

The massive Ki that he already had...

 

[kriss-]

According to you Piccolo was aware of his massive Ki but believed that Gotenks SSj Pre stood a chance, despite being 8 times weaker. And according to you, the artwork that shows Boo's muscles popping out isn't reflective of him giving it everything he had.

Your logic creates too many plot-holes.

I don't buy it.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Piccolo makes a comment about Gotenks being the only one capable of giving Boo a tough time, although, this is based on a false pretense because Goku lied and said that he couldn’t defeat Majin Boo. As a result, Gotenks falsely believes himself to be the strongest in the Universe. E.g. the definition of a long nose in Japanese culture is to be conceited; characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance. The only person up until that point that Gotenks could be referencing is Goku SSj3.

SS3 Goku > Super Boo full power > Fat Boo? Just how much power did Goku hide earlier lol. And Super Boo never powered up when he ripped the dimension.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo makes a comment about Gotenks being the only one capable of giving Boo a tough time, although, this is based on a false pretense because Goku lied and said that he couldn’t defeat Majin Boo. As a result, Gotenks falsely believes himself to be the strongest in the Universe. E.g. the definition of a long nose in Japanese culture is to be conceited; characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance. The only person up until that point that Gotenks could be referencing is Goku SSj3.

SS3 Goku > Super Boo full power > Fat Boo? Just how much power did Goku hide earlier lol. And Super Boo never powered up when he ripped the dimension.

I went over Goku's fight with Innocent Boo, and for the first issue, it was more-or-less just Goku buying some time and not really taking the fight seriously at all. Innocent Boo only managed to land a single punch on him because Goku was thinking about how Majin Boo can learn any move rather quickly.

This one-sided fight continues on to the opening of the following issue, where Goku opens with a cross to his face, and Innocent Boo returns with one of his. But the artwork still shows that Goku is completely non-chalant. Goku did perform a Kamehameha wave, but as we see during his fight with Pure Boo, Goku requires at least 1 full minute to gather his Ki in order to unleash a fully powered Kamehameha wave; the one he performed against Innocent Boo likely had the amount of effort that he was putting into the fight, none at all.

So the fight continues and Goku is still learning about Majin Boo's weird anatomy and how quickly he can learn new attacks. Which surprises him when Boo performs a Kamehameha wave. Goku knocks it back and Majin Boo decides to knock it in the direction opposite to Goku, giving him no time to stop it. Babadi was always standing behind Boo and the artwork shows that this is what happened. Think of it as the time when Nappa was about to murder Gohan and Krillen and a more powerful Goku was unable to close the distance between himself and Nappa.

The evidence is here:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Pay attention to where Babadi is in comparison to Majin Boo before and after the explosion.

Finally, Goku ends the fight because he no longer has to buy any time and compliments Boo about his ability to instantly learn anybodies fighting techniques.

As a final wrap-up, I didn't see any evidence to support the claim that these two were actually close in power at that time. If there was, well... I didn't see it.

There is nothing wrong with Goku being 2.5x stronger than Innocent Boo at all, and Innocent Boo simultaneously being 2.5x stronger than Teen Gohan. This would actually make much more sense considering how Vegeta was able to at least resist Majin Boo to some degree. I seriously believe that Majin Boo's energy radar is completely accurate, why else would Toriyama place it there?

You don't have to believe that Super Boo didn't power up, but:

a) The artwork shows him going full throttle.
b) Piccolo said he broke out with his massive Ki and he makes no distinction about Ki he already had or what he has now.
c) Piccolo believed Gotenks SSj Post stood a chance prior to the massive Ki statement.

The logical conclusion is that Super Boo's Ki increased to a point far beyond Gotenks SSj Post.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Piccolo makes a comment about Gotenks being the only one capable of giving Boo a tough time, although, this is based on a false pretense because Goku lied and said that he couldn’t defeat Majin Boo. As a result, Gotenks falsely believes himself to be the strongest in the Universe. E.g. the definition of a long nose in Japanese culture is to be conceited; characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance. The only person up until that point that Gotenks could be referencing is Goku SSj3.

SS3 Goku > Super Boo full power > Fat Boo? Just how much power did Goku hide earlier lol. And Super Boo never powered up when he ripped the dimension.

I went over Goku's fight with Innocent Boo, and for the first issue, it was more-or-less just Goku buying some time and not really taking the fight seriously at all. Innocent Boo only managed to land a single punch on him because Goku was thinking about how Majin Boo can learn any move rather quickly.

This one-sided fight continues on to the opening of the following issue, where Goku opens with a cross to his face, and Innocent Boo returns with one of his. But the artwork still shows that Goku is completely non-chalant. Goku did perform a Kamehameha wave, but as we see during his fight with Pure Boo, Goku requires at least 1 full minute to gather his Ki in order to unleash a fully powered Kamehameha wave; the one he performed against Innocent Boo likely had the amount of effort that he was putting into the fight, none at all.

So the fight continues and Goku is still learning about Majin Boo's weird anatomy and how quickly he can learn new attacks. Which surprises him when Boo performs a Kamehameha wave. Goku knocks it back and Majin Boo decides to knock it in the direction opposite to Goku, giving him no time to stop it. Babadi was always standing behind Boo and the artwork shows that this is what happened. Think of it as the time when Nappa was about to murder Gohan and Krillen and a more powerful Goku was unable to close the distance between himself and Nappa.

The evidence is here:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Pay attention to where Babadi is in comparison to Majin Boo before and after the explosion.

Finally, Goku ends the fight because he no longer has to buy any time and compliments Boo about his ability to instantly learn anybodies fighting techniques.

As a final wrap-up, I didn't see any evidence to support the claim that these two were actually close in power at that time. If there was, well... I didn't see it.

There is nothing wrong with Goku being 2.5x stronger than Innocent Boo at all, and Innocent Boo simultaneously being 2.5x stronger than Teen Gohan. This would actually make much more sense considering how Vegeta was able to at least resist Majin Boo to some degree. I seriously believe that Majin Boo's energy radar is completely accurate, why else would Toriyama place it there?

You don't have to believe that Super Boo didn't power up, but:

a) The artwork shows him going full throttle.
b) Piccolo said he broke out with his massive Ki and he makes no distinction about Ki he already had or what he has now.
c) Piccolo believed Gotenks SSj Post stood a chance prior to the massive Ki statement.

The logical conclusion is that Super Boo's Ki increased to a point far beyond Gotenks SSj Post.

Spoiler

First of all, Goku doesn't have to be twice stronger than Fat Boo in order to own him. Moreover, Goku said he haven't mastered the formed yet which is ridiculous if he was supressing his power since a new form cannot be supress as shown in the series.

It's more logical that he was holding back [effort] just like Gohan against Cell, Goku against Freeza etc., unlike those examples, because they were enrage and here Goku wasn't.

Also Super Boo never powered up in Rosat since nothing ever stated that he did. Piccolo also believed Base Gotenks had a chance and he was wrong. He believed SSj Gotenks had a chance and he was wrong again.

 

[kriss-]

I never said he was suppressing his power, I said Innocent was no match for him at all.

According to you, Gotenks SSj Post had a chance against someone 8x stronger then him. That's stupid. A power-up is obviously implied.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I never said he was suppressing his power, I said Innocent was no match for him at all.

According to you, Gotenks SSj Post had a chance against someone 8x stronger then him. That's stupid. A power-up is obviously implied.

Nothing implied that Boo powered up. Piccolo was just surprised that Gotenks was able to transformed into SSj and after that Gotenks immediately used his donut move and Boo survived from it like it was nothing. It was later that he had hoped when Gotenks was able to destroy Boo by kamikazi attack.

 

[kriss-]

I never said he was suppressing his power, I said Innocent was no match for him at all.

According to you, Gotenks SSj Post had a chance against someone 8x stronger then him. That's stupid. A power-up is obviously implied.

Nothing implied that Boo powered up. Piccolo was just surprised that Gotenks was able to transformed into SSj and after that Gotenks immediately used his donut move and Boo survived from it like it was nothing. It was later that he had hoped when Gotenks was able to destroy Boo by kamikazi attack.

Your logic creates a plot hole in regards to Piccolo thinking Gotenks SSj Post stood a chance.

Please keep it to yourself because you're obviously wrong.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I never said he was suppressing his power, I said Innocent was no match for him at all.

According to you, Gotenks SSj Post had a chance against someone 8x stronger then him. That's stupid. A power-up is obviously implied.

Nothing implied that Boo powered up. Piccolo was just surprised that Gotenks was able to transformed into SSj and after that Gotenks immediately used his donut move and Boo survived from it like it was nothing. It was later that he had hoped when Gotenks was able to destroy Boo by kamikazi attack.

Your logic creates a plot hole in regards to Piccolo thinking Gotenks SSj Post stood a chance.

Please keep it to yourself because you're obviously wrong.

Look!!!

He had hoped because of Gotenks technique not his power.

 

[kriss-]

Sigh... I'm getting tired of humoring you. =/ Anyways, Piccolo said 'Can he truly do this', once Gotenks head-butted Boo and damaged him, THEN Gotenks says he's going to use his best techniques. Piccolo's admission of hope has to do with what Gotenks is physically capable of and not necessarily capable of through techniques.

Japanese Manga reads right to left.

=/

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Piccolo was depending on Gotenks words when he said ''i had lots more to show you'' which refers something other than his power unless Piccolo believed that Gotenks was holding back.

 

[kriss-]

Gotenks said he HAD lots more to show him but he's making Gotenks mad so he's presumably going to go all out. This is not reflective of Ki techniques at all. Stop making things up.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Gotenks showed kamikazi attack so he wasn't talking about power.

 

[kriss-]

Gotenks showed kamikazi attack so he wasn't talking about power.

Gotenks's head-butt was vital towards Piccolo making that statement. Hence why he stated it directly after the head-butt occurred.

So he was definitely incorporating power and Gotenks's weird array of abilities.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

And that contradict Piccolo for thinking Gotenks holding back.