Expected Battle Powers

[Pakl]

Give your opinion on those characters' estimation to those villians

Piccolo's estimation of Raditz's battle power before he teamed up with Goku: 600~700

Piccolo's estimation of Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers before they arrived on earth: 2,000~2,500

Piccolo's estimation of Freeza's battle power before going to Namek: 100,000

Vegeta's estimation of 2nd form Freeza before the latter transformed: 700,000

 

[Power Level Guy]

Piccolo's estimation of Raditz's battle power before he teamed up with Goku: 600~700

Raditz full on tanked Piccolo's ki blast. It's most likely unamped, but still, Piccolo's power here is 322. Raditz is at bare minimum double that.

Piccolo's estimation of Freeza's battle power before going to Namek: 100,000

This is an interesting question I never thought about. As we generally assume, he's probably around 50% Freeza's power here, and he thinks he could have won I believe, so anything below 275k is probably fine.

Vegeta's estimation of 2nd form Freeza before the latter transformed: 700,000

I generally apply Zarbon's boost to Freeza and it ends up around 720k.

I think W/o Weights Kamiccolo is around 700k and Expected Transformed Freeza is 720k.

Piccolo's estimation of Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers before they arrived on earth: 2,000~2,500

Hmm, never thought of this either.

In general, I don't think they are making exact expectations, they are expecting to either be able to win or put up a fight. There's a reason they are ganging up, sometimes expected powers might not be the best way to look at things. But there are times when it's super helpful, like with Pui Pui.

You should include Expected Saiyans here for Pre Pui Pui and Post Pui Pui. Now that's a great conversation imo.

 

[Hector]

Piccolo's estimation of Raditz's battle power before he teamed up with Goku: 600~700

I have Goku's/Piccolo's full power at 750 here, so Expected Raditz is at 1,000.

Piccolo's estimation of Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers before they arrived on earth: 2,000~2,500

Piccolo was at least at 2,000 himself, but he didn't seem sure he could take out Expected Saiyans, even with the help of the others. He should expect them to be at least at 3,000.

Piccolo's estimation of Freeza's battle power before going to Namek: 100,000

Piccolo was implied to be half of Freeza's power with weights on (around 250k), which means that with no weights on he was at least 300k. And he never said he was going to fight Freeza alone. He sure counted on Gohan's/Krillin's help. Expected Freeza must be at least at 400,000.

Vegeta's estimation of 2nd form Freeza before the latter transformed: 700,000

Probably right.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Hector I think your expectations end up a bit too high.

Raditz easily tools Goku and Piccolo without going all out once their fight starts. How much effort is Raditz using here?

Shouldn’t Nappa be at 3k since he’s bruised by Masenko and 5k Goku makes a complete fool of him?

Piccolo instantly crapped himself sensing suppressed Freeza. If he’s expecting 400k then Freeza would need to be at least 500k to make him crap himself, but 500k is FP Freeza.

 

[Hector]

Raditz easily tools Goku and Piccolo without going all out once their fight starts. How much effort is Raditz using here?

80% of his effort.

Shouldn’t Nappa be at 3k since he’s bruised by Masenko and 5k Goku makes a complete fool of him?

I have Nappa at 3.5k when he fights the Z-fighters.

Piccolo instantly crapped himself sensing suppressed Freeza. If he’s expecting 400k then Freeza would need to be at least 500k to make him crap himself, but 500k is FP Freeza.

Freeza controlled his power level only after he transformed, so there is no suppressed 1st form. Piccolo just said, "His power waxes greater (not increased), he must be about to fight."

 

[Power Level Guy]

Freeza controlled his power level only after he transformed, so there is no suppressed 1st form. Piccolo just said, "His power waxes greater (not increased), he must be about to fight."

Freeza did exactly what Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta did on Earth. Freeza merely surfaced his ki.

 

[Hector]

Freeza did exactly what Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta did on Earth. Freeza merely surfaced his ki.

OK, how about 350k for Expected Freeza?

 

[Power Level Guy]

OK, how about 350k for Expected Freeza?

Look at Piccolo’s reaction to sending Freeza.

Piccolo himself is most likely 350, so that won’t cut it.

Piccolo + help most likely can’t defeat Freeza’s suppressed power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t even get why Suppressed Freeza has to be stronger than Piccolo. He never said he expected help either.

 

[Hector]

Piccolo himself is most likely 350, so that won’t cut it.

Weighted Piccolo was implied to be a little less than half of Freeza's power (around 250k). I don't see why removing weights should give him that much of a boost at this point.

 

[Pyro]

Piccolo's estimation of Raditz's battle power before he teamed up with Goku: 600

Piccolo's estimation of Vegeta and Nappa's battle powers before they arrived on earth: 1,800

Piccolo's estimation of Freeza's battle power before going to Namek: 70-120,000

Vegeta's estimation of 2nd form Freeza before the latter transformed: 630,000

 

[Power Level Guy]

I don’t even get why Suppressed Freeza has to be stronger than Piccolo. He never said he expected help either.

Piccolo crapped himself.

Weighted Piccolo was implied to be a little less than half of Freeza's power (around 250k). I don't see why removing weights should give him that much of a boost at this point.

He gained a large boost even when Nail increased his power tremendously.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Piccolo crapped himself.

Oops. I meant Expected Freeza. Suppressed >>> Piccolo for sure.

 

[Hector]

He gained a large boost even when Nail increased his power tremendously.

He went from being a little weaker to a little stronger than FP 2nd Form Freeza. At this point in the series, I see no reason to treat weights-off boost as anything different from what it was in Saiyans Saga (1.25x).

 

[Power Level Guy]

He went from being a little weaker to a little stronger than FP 2nd Form Freeza. At this point in the series, I see no reason to treat weights-off boost as anything different from what it was in Saiyans Saga (1.25x).

Yeah, that's what I pretty much have it.

Piccolo W/Weights 275
Piccolo W/o Weights 350

Basically a 1.25x boost.

 

[SSJ2]

Vegeta's estimation of 2nd form Freeza is an interesting one. If Vegeta was still lagging behind 1st form Freeza to the point where he needed Gohan/Krillin's help, where was his confidence coming from?

 

[Hector]

Yeah, that's what I pretty much have it.

Piccolo W/Weights 275
Piccolo W/o Weights 350

Basically a 1.25x boost.

I have Weighted Piccolo at 250k.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I have Weighted Piccolo at 250k.

That's fine, I think Nail saying that Kamiccolo "might win" justifies putting him a little higher than 530,000, but honestly so long as it's very close to 530,000, that's really all that matters.

I have Kamiccolo at 550,000, you have him at 500,000. It's close enough. Personal preferences aren't legitimate debate tactics.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta's estimation of 2nd form Freeza is an interesting one. If Vegeta was still lagging behind 1st form Freeza to the point where he needed Gohan/Krillin's help, where was his confidence coming from?

I think Vegeta is in a state of desperation, and he's coming undone to a degree. It's one thing to win against 1st Form Freeza, but to beat Transformed Freeza doesn't seem to make much sense. But it could be a less than 8k Goku and friends versus Nappa scenario. Perhaps there are other situations like this as well, Unweighted Goku/Piccolo vs Initial Raditz and so on.

I don't think Vegeta actually says they can beat Transformed Freeza, so I'd need to see the definitive quote, but he also doesn't expect Freeza to power-up much.

It's times like these that I can't help to think of Final Form Freeza getting such a paltry boost being illogical. 1st Form to 2nd Form Initial is at least 2x, my goodness, Final Form Freeza's arrival is portrayed as the most devastating thing to ever happen in the series. FF Freeza getting a power-up at least on par to 2nd Form Freeza seems in order.

 

[Hector]

That's fine, I think Nail saying that Kamiccolo "might win" justifies putting him a little higher than 530,000, but honestly so long as it's very close to 530,000, that's really all that matters.

I have Kamiccolo at 550,000, you have him at 500,000. It's close enough. Personal preferences aren't legitimate debate tactics.

I interpret Nail's words more as something like, "You might have a chance."