Expected Goku + Gohan/Piccolo

[SSJ2]

When Vegeta picks up Goku on the scouter and it reads 5,000, he says that may only be Goku's minimum. He then tells Nappa that Goku could be a challenge with Piccolo and Gohan there. When Goku powers up to 8,000, Vegeta is clearly in disbelief, so how strong do you think he was expecting Goku to be if 5,000 was only his theoretical minimum?

Also how strong do you have Gohan and Piccolo to be able to make a difference in the fight?

 

[Hector]

I have Nappa at 7,500, so maybe Goku's expected power was at 6,500.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Nappa 8,000
Max Expected Goku 6,500
Piccolo 2,000
Gohan 1,500

I don't see how Gohan and Piccolo can be much of any help. I just think Vegeta went from thinking it was going to be a walk in the park for Nappa, to Nappa actually being threatened somewhat. Being a threat and being a serious threat are different things.

Good topic.

 

[Warmmedown]

I think Vegeta thought Goku would be the same as on the scouter, so 5000ish. But he thought Goku would have some kind of beam like the humans/Piccolo and raise his level using that. So the shock was that he was able to bring his base power level to 8000.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think Vegeta thought Goku would be the same as on the scouter, so 5000ish. But he thought Goku would have some kind of beam like the humans/Piccolo and raise his level using that. So the shock was that he was able to bring his base power level to 8000.

He said 5k might be just for starters. That was the whole point of the threat. If he's only 5k, Nappa can handle them.

Which should be more proof that Nappa>5,000

 

[Warmmedown]

5K for starters because they can use a beam to deliver a more powerful attack. Vegeta already saw Tien's Kikoho that was able to make Nappa feel something despite Tien's low power level and heard Raditz's audio, when Goku used a KHH with double his own power level. If the likes of Piccolo and Krillin were already able to distract Nappa at times and someone with a 5K power level was able to amplify their power for a moment, they could kill Nappa.

 

[SSJ2]

Nappa 8,000
Max Expected Goku 6,500
Piccolo 2,000
Gohan 1,500

I don't see how Gohan and Piccolo can be much of any help. I just think Vegeta went from thinking it was going to be a walk in the park for Nappa, to Nappa actually being threatened somewhat. Being a threat and being a serious threat are different things.

Good topic.

I guess my question would be; does Vegeta even care about Nappa? His behavior towards him later on makes it clear he doesn't care whether Nappa lives or dies. It almost feels like he was considering his own security when making that statement.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I guess my question would be; does Vegeta even care about Nappa? His behavior towards him later on makes it clear he doesn't care whether Nappa lives or dies. It almost feels like he was considering his own security when making that statement.

Yeah, the way I always take it is that Vegeta is saying both he and Nappa as a team are threatened.

 

[SSJ2]

That's exactly why I have trouble with Vegeta expecting Goku to be below 8,000. Either Toriyama hadn't decided how powerful Vegeta was going to be, or Vegeta was truly thinking that Goku would be above 8,000, but was in denial about it.

 

[Kyo]

It's not like Vegeta considering the possibility of an 8000+ Goku and then also being surprised by it are mutually exclusive. They don't always have to have an exact number in mind when they're thinking things like "and he could be even stronger than this" -- how much stronger? Who knows, but best not to take any risks when the bare minimum is already far higher than expected.

His behavior towards him later on makes it clear he doesn't care whether Nappa lives or dies.

Right, but he's also annoyed that he even has to get involved. That aside, it's not that he cares about Nappa's life, but he does still consider Nappa useful to him at this point.

EDIT: Also I agree with wolf on Goku using beams, although I don't think Vegeta was expecting his base power level to stay 5k. But beams would make a big difference coming from anyone at 5k+.

 

[Power Level Guy]

It's not like Vegeta considering the possibility of an 8000+ Goku and then also being surprised by it are mutually exclusive.

This is probably the answer. Vegeta in his mind, doesn't really know exactly how strong Goku can get, but he knows if 5k is just for starters, Nappa is in danger of actually losing.

 

[Warmmedown]

I think he mostly just cares about having Nappa there to do some of the work for him on other planets. His ego's pretty big too, so I could see him enjoying having someone to marvel at his strength, generally suck up to him and to order around, especially when dealing with the frustration of feeling belittled by Cui, Dodoria, Freeza etc. If Nappa's crippled he can't be of use for those things. Although with a little effort he could've taken him back to a healing chamber later, but maybe he was just irritated and made an impulsive decision that it wouldn't be worth the effort and short-term humiliation of carrying a crippled Nappa in front of Freeza's men.

Something I think supports him expecting sub 6000 is when Vegeta says on Namek (to Cui) that speed and power are proportional to one another. He'd assume Goku is flying about as fast as he can to save his son/friends and the only way to do that is to be at around his max PL (he doesn't know about Kinto'un).