Fixing the Dragon Ball Super Movie

[Papasmurf]

I personally believe that this is still one of the better things to come of recent DB material (it at least didn't make me facepalm nearly as much as Fukkatsu no F, which was literally a mountain load of horrendous asspulls/contrivances ranging from Shisami getting thousands of times stronger without explanation, Freeza making retardedly huge gains and being revived in pieces for no reason, etc.). That being said, like most of the recent material it has many flaws that give it ample room for improvement. Which are the main points you'd have fixed to make it a better product?

- I'd firstly fix the retcon of Freeza's appearance when he is introduced to the Saiyans/destroys Planet Vegeta. He still had stripes over his arms and looked no different from his normal self in Minus as well as the Freeza arc flashback. No reason to change something that ain't broke, Toriyama! :mikey

- I'd remove the Superman ripoff bullshit plot thread of Goku being sent to Earth for his safety and have it so Bardock would send him to Earth with the initiative to conquer it as his first test as his son, so the irony in the man who was to be Earth's destroyer instead being its savior stands. While a minor point, I'd also have Bardock wear his headband and classic armor by the time Freeza kills him.

- Moving onto the main Broly battle, I'd make it so that Broly's rage form is what causes his power to rise without any seeming limit, as his rage allows him to tap into the vast wells of his potential power. (Paragus would explain this has happened before, and that it was only Broly's love for his father that brought him back to his senses when he nearly destroyed Planet Vampa.) As such, I'd have Broly instead put up a fight against Vegeta's SSJ in rage form before the rage form causes him to tap into the limits of his non-SSJ power allowing him to overpower even SSJG Vegeta. Of course, I'd also have Galu start out immediately in SSJG instead of dicking around in base/SSJ. This effectively explains how Broly can make such huge gains by merely fighting rather than him randomly increasing in power a la Hit/manga ToP Gohan. Also, to give Broly more agency/freedom I'd have Broly completely regain his senses by the time he fights SSJ Blue Galu, and only continue the fight to appease his Saiyan instincts (until Paragus's murder spurs him into a berserker rage when he goes SSJ).

- To explain how Gogeta is somehow stronger than Trunks arc Vegetto despite using a lower fusion, I'd also have Vegeta consider it ridiculous that SSJ Blue Kakarotto is no match for SSJ Broly despite having grown so much stronger over the course of the ToP and its aftermath.

- I'd also have Trunks beginning to reach puberty at this point, as he should be around 15 now that Bra is a baby (and Goten being jealous that his friend suddenly got way taller). These kids can't stay midgets forever.

- When Galu and Vegeta fail the Fusion Dance, Gohan mistakes their ki vanishing to be an indication that Broly has somehow killed the two after finishing things with Freeza. Also, Goku and Vegeta only fail the dance once, and Gohan ends up being Broly's next punching bag after Freeza, rather than Freeza antilogically lasting for an entire hour.

- And of course, the elephant in the room of Freeza's dumb wish. The wish itself is fine as a gag, but the reasoning for it in the movie was absolute AIDS. I'd instead have it so that Freeza now knows immortality would do him no good if Zeno were to erase him or the universe, and also add that Freeza following the ToP now wishes to surpass Beerus using his own power so he can rule all the universes one day.

- Broly dropping to base randomly after being warped back to Vampa was random. I'd have him wrecking most of that planet as well until he comes across Ba, which snaps him back to his senses as he realized he wasn't alone in the world and allowing him to move on past the death of his papa.

- Gogeta reverts to base following Broly being wished away, but turns SSJ again and gives Freeza a stern warning that the next time he GASLIGHTS another innocent into a pointless battle like this, it'll be a one-way ticket back to hell for him.

Give me your thoughts, bitch niggas.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Nothing. It was perfect as it was.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

- Changing the Virgin Minus flashback back to the Chad Bardock Special history is an obvious major fix. That said, don't even bother focusing on Goku or Vegeta and just focus on Broly's history. No need to waste time on what we already know (or ruin what we loved in the case of the actual Broly movie).
- I agree with the rewrite of Freeza's wish, though I'd say scrapping the gag for something more practical would work better with Freeza's character. Wishing to be able to use Shunkan Ido or some other teleportation technique as to manage his empire more efficiently, for instance.
- Remove Beerus and Whis being on Earth in general. Not only did making him a babysitter damage his credibility even further, but it makes no sense why he wouldn't rush to fight the one Saiyan at that time (outside of fusions) who could give him an intense fight.
- I'd remove Cheelai since she was just there as a psuedo-love interest for Broly and slight fanservice as well as an excuse not to have Broly die at the end.

- I'd rewrite Broly's character to something more similar to his pre-Super self but with additional explanation be given for his motivation. The whole idea of him becoming some mindless berserker takes away all agency and characterisation once he transforms despite his base self having been rewritten to avoid that. I'd have it rewritten that Broly's special qualities made his Saiyan instincts far more enhanced than most others and he was able to instinctively tell the potential Goku held and his upbringing would be similar to in canon, a young man caught between the love for his father and an id filled with desires for destruction.
Upon being faced by both the Saiyan who's potential he sensed and seeing how much of a happy life he's had by comparison, as well as seeing the son of the king who stabbed him, Broly goes Super Saiyan and fights the two. He's no match for their base forms and is quickly beaten, but it would be explained that the rage he has causes him to slowly heal and abuse the Zenkai system, eventually reaching the level he was in the film and going LSSJ. Of course, he's the sadistic epitome of Saiyan savagery he was in Movie 8 and not the mindless plot device in the DBS film, hence why he fights Freeza for an hour by prolonging Freeza's suffering. Of course, the initial fight is cut down so there's no pointless Base/SSJ Goku VS Broly fight.
Paragus is delighted at this and tells Broly to kill Freeza so they can finally avenge the Saiyan race after all these years. Broly tells his father that he's no longer his to control and Broly will kill Freeza when he feels like it. Conflicted between his desire to be free of Paragus' control permanently yet his rational side also having love for his father, eventually makes his decision and murders Paragus whilst tears fall down his face.
- Considering how Vegeta has already seen the fusion dance from the afterlife and has similar battle talent to Goku, it shouldn't have taken three tries for the two to get it right, nor Piccolo needing to be teaching them it. I'd have them fail once but prior to that, the remainder of the time is them actually debating whether or not to use the fusion dance. Their Saiyan pride makes neither want to do this, especially Vegeta, and it's important a major reason that Goku wanted to use the Potara against Evil Boo and not Pure Boo was the former wasn't fighting as his own person. This also links back to Goku being unable to defeat Boo on his own and later relying on the God ritual against Beerus. However, it isn't long before both accept Broly is an opponent that they have no choice to use fusion against.
- I'd have characters such as Gohan and #17 get involved in the fight after Goku and Vegeta fall back to fuse. It makes little sense they were absent with such a strong opponent showing up on Earth.
- Gogeta VS Broly occurs the same, other than Gogeta killing him at the end. Freeza having been kept around as an on and off ally is bad enough and this whole idea of having these intimidating and irredeemable villains be rewritten as having the potential to be friends rather than being those the main cast could fight in battles to the death against shows how much testosterone has been sapped from the series since the 90s. Redeeming Broly as a good guy goes against everything his character should stand for, so just let him get killed.
- For Gogeta letting Freeza go, I'd give him a line of saying he won't hesitate to do the same as he did to Broly if Freeza keeps causing trouble across the universe.
- As the epilogue, both Goku and Vegeta are dissatisfied at not being able to defeat Broly through their own power, though it provides them greater motivation to break their current limits.

 

[Papasmurf]

[mention]Captain Cadaver[/mention]: Isn't it a little farfetched that Vegeta would allow Broly the time to abuse the zenkai system so many times as to reach the level he was in the movie rather than killing him long before he surpasses their powers? Maybe you should add that until becoming enraged by Vegeta and Goku, Broly was a calm and agreeable Saiyan so Goku makes the conscious choice to spare him up to that point.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I could, or alternatively have the healing factor be so rapid that Vegeta's attempts to kill him simply don't work. Having Zenkais be a major reason for his boosts would also explain why he wasn't able to make his Ki rise higher against Gogeta, since he'd have tapped out as much as he could get that way. Another way would be to have Freeza intervene when Vegeta tries to go in for the kill, saying he doesn't want Vegeta to ruin his fun of seeing monkeys kill each other.

Another thing I'd add is bringing back Vegeta's fear from Movie 8 once Broly goes LSSJ. Vegeta still attempts to transform and attack, but his body's instincts are far more attuned to Saiyan lifestyle than Goku's, making him aware of the threat and powering down. It takes all his mental fortitude to and reminder that he's both a Saiyan prince and citizen of Earth to get through his instincts and go SSBE, at which point he fights on par with Broly until the latter's Ki adapts to this. I'd also add the explanation that LSSJ is a form not too different from the God forms in terms of its Ki signal, thus making God Ki somewhat less of a joke. To explain Gohan and co.'s arrival, I'd have them sense Freeza and realise Goku and Vegeta's Ki were decreasing.

I'd also make an amendment to my idea of Gogeta and Freeza's interaction, something along the lines of this:

Gogeta: "You brought that monster here and threatened the whole Earth. Give me one good reason why I shouldn't send you back to hell?!"
Freeza: "Leaving aside how I helped save our universe not long ago, that Broly was a ticking time-bomb. Had I not brought him here he would've inevitably ended up rampaging across the universe. You could say we have both played our part in ending the greatest threat to Universe 7, Gogeta-san."
Gogeta: "...We'll defeat you without fusion next time. If you want that next time to even exist for you, get off my planet now."
Freeza: "As sour towards me as ever, you two. I'm glad our feelings are mutual, for once, hohoho."

I would also think about having Broly kill off some of the fighters like Gohan, #17 or Piccolo to offer a more clearly defined reason as to showing Broly couldn't be reasoned with, those who couldn't be revived with Earth's Dragon Balls being done so through New Namek's. I would point out how that would require a rewrite for the Moro Arc, but that arc is one that logistically can't work in the continuity no matter how you rewrite it (unless resorting to more time travel) to the point erasing it is a far better option.

 

[Pocket-Gog~]

Nothing. It was perfect as it was.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, I still think the healing factor being that advanced is an asspull. Freeza intervening several times sounds like a better idea.

As for the Moro arc, as much as it pains me to defend that terribad fanfiction level you could chalk up Moro not escaping in the future to more butterfly effect bullshit akin to Babidi arriving decades later than in the main timeline, and Moro not escaping before Zeno erased him.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

As for the Moro arc, as much as it pains me to defend that terribad fanfiction level you could chalk up Moro not escaping in the future to more butterfly effect bullshit akin to Babidi arriving decades later than in the main timeline, and Moro not escaping before Zeno erased him.

Babidi's invasion being far later can be chalked up to #17 and #18's devastation of Earth making Babidi not see draining the population as worthwhile. The way Toriyama used the butterfly effect to excuse changes that weren't even connected was bad enough in the Cell Arc. It doesn't need to be made even worse.

 

[Papasmurf]

The only other explanation I have for it is Cranberry getting killed by the Artificial Humans in the alternate timeline, but knowing taro I doubt we'll ever see such an explanation.

 

[PFM18]

The movie doesn't need fixing. It is one of the best things this franchise has ever produced.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

The movie doesn't need fixing. It is one of the best things this franchise has ever produced.

- Retcons previously established history that degrades the Saiyans and goes with the Superman ripoff for Goku's backstory in Minus.
- Ruins Freeza's character through a poor motivation for his wish.
- Has Broly be able to compete with God Ki users when living on a planet with beasts who are at best Nappa tier.
- Doesn't have Beerus take action despite fighting Broly being in line with his character motivations, thus cheapening Beerus into just being a plot device.
- Needless padding with fight scenes (Goku fighting in base after seeing Broly overpower SSG Vegeta).
- Broly rewrite falls flat when he spends most of the film as a mindless berserker.
- Gogeta lets Freeza get off scot free, despite being the instigator of this event and Vegeta training specifically to make sure Freeza doesn't surpass and kill he and Goku.

Yep, definitely one of the best DB properties that has no flaws.

 

[Papasmurf]

The movie doesn't need fixing. It is one of the best things this franchise has ever produced.

- Doesn't have Beerus take action despite fighting Broly being in line with his character motivations, thus cheapening Beerus into just being a plot device.

To be fair, Beerus didn't fight Freeza nor take any part in the Zamasu conflict aside from erasing the present Zamasu before he could do anything, so it's in character for Beerus to not take part in the Saiyans' fight on the reasoning that they should wipe their own asses.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'm talking specifically about Broly fitting in line with the SSG prophecy that had him searching across the universe as his primary motivator within the BoG Arc, despite what he found being nowhere near a true challenge to him and Broly actually being someone on par with his full power.

 

[Papasmurf]

Broly started out weaker than the base Saiyans though, it's only through his constant improvements mid-battle that he got so strong, and even then he was weaker than the SSJB/PSSJBs until he went Super Saiyan. The movie ended soon after Gogeta began to fight Broly, considering that it couldn't have been longer than a couple of minutes that Gogeta was beating up Broly when his fusion time is half of Vegetto's.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Considering Whis still found it fun enough to test Broly, it seems doubtful Beerus wouldn't have been tempted to do the same, especially when he could've easily flew off and interrupted the battle as soon as Broly used his full power.

 

[Papasmurf]

Broly didn't enter his full power (LSSJ) form until he'd begun to fight Gogeta (and during that sequence where they were stuck in that alternate dimension for a minute).

 

[PFM18]

The movie doesn't need fixing. It is one of the best things this franchise has ever produced.

- Retcons previously established history that degrades the Saiyans and goes with the Superman ripoff for Goku's backstory in Minus.
- Ruins Freeza's character through a poor motivation for his wish.
- Has Broly be able to compete with God Ki users when living on a planet with beasts who are at best Nappa tier.
- Doesn't have Beerus take action despite fighting Broly being in line with his character motivations, thus cheapening Beerus into just being a plot device.
- Needless padding with fight scenes (Goku fighting in base after seeing Broly overpower SSG Vegeta).
- Broly rewrite falls flat when he spends most of the film as a mindless berserker.
- Gogeta lets Freeza get off scot free, despite being the instigator of this event and Vegeta training specifically to make sure Freeza doesn't surpass and kill he and Goku.

Yep, definitely one of the best DB properties that has no flaws.

-Except it establishes that Goku would have been sent off-planet because he is weak, upholding the premise of the Saiyan arc that describes Goku as a low-class Saiyan that was to be sent off-planet to conquer another planet, and later sell it.
-Ruins his character? His character remains identical. He is not any less evil, he is just a little more aesthetically conceited than we originally knew. How the fuck does that ruin his character?
-No? He didn't just show up and compete with God Ki users, it took him achieving a new form and a period of adaptation for him to do that. He didn't just go directly from fighting spiders to competing with God forms that is just a straight up lie.
-He should have fought Broly because he is a strong fighter you're saying? He only became a challenge to Beerus at the very end of the movie and Beerus was arguably sleeping during the fight.(Could have easily fallen asleep while "babysitting" Bra.)
-yeah that was dumb. Not a big deal though.
-Or it reiterates the uncontrollable rage side of him?
-You mean exactly how Goku let Freeza off scott-free despite murdering the entire Namek and Saiyan race?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

-Except it establishes that Goku would have been sent off-planet because he is weak, upholding the premise of the Saiyan arc that describes Goku as a low-class Saiyan that was to be sent off-planet to conquer another planet, and later sell it.

At the expense of ruining the thematic relevance of Goku having been sent to destroy Earth only to become its saviour, one of the best parts about the Saiyan Arc.

-Ruins his character? His character remains identical. He is not any less evil, he is just a little more aesthetically conceited than we originally knew. How the fuck does that ruin his character?

Wanting to be taller rather than immortality due to seeing how bad Hell was makes no sense when without immortality or reform, he'll just inevitably end up there again. There were multiple explanations that could've been given for his change (eg. Immortality being useless against Zen-Oh), yet they chose the dumbest explanation possible.

-No? He didn't just show up and compete with God Ki users, it took him achieving a new form and a period of adaptation for him to do that. He didn't just go directly from fighting spiders to competing with God forms that is just a straight up lie.

His power was already immeasurable by scouters and he was able to catch up to SSG Vegeta without achieving Super Saiyan. Making such a major jump in power as you're implying from a very basic power up is completely cheap.

-yeah that was dumb. Not a big deal though.

Other than making the fighting genius Goku look like an idiot (though that's far from a rarity in Super).

-Or it reiterates the uncontrollable rage side of him?

Original Broly did that through showing his sadism and giving his LSSJ form some actual character. There's literally nothing about SSJ/LSSJ Broly's characterisation in Super beyond "Broly Smash!"

-You mean exactly how Goku let Freeza off scott-free despite murdering the entire Namek and Saiyan race?

Failing to stop a planet getting severely damaged when not expecting the move is far from necessitating being reprimanded and having most of his body destroyed and killed as soon as he tried another evil thing is far from Freeza getting off without punishment. Absolute false equivalence.

 

[Papasmurf]

-yeah that was dumb. Not a big deal though.

Other than making the fighting genius Goku look like an idiot (though that's far from a rarity in Super).

GT and the movies were way worse with the base Saiyan padding though, like Galu fighting Janenba in base for half the fight before quickly cycling through the forms up to SSJ3 randomly and Galu refusing to tranform against Vegeta-Baby until the latter went up to full power, etc.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Yeah, but two wrongs still don't make a right.