For those who think Gohan was a SS2 against Dabra...

[SSJ2]

There are at least 10 points for Gohan being either SS or SS2. It is very, very difficult to choose a side unfortunately.

Perhaps we can get every single point for either side and sticky it? Anyone interested in that?

I can bring up some points, but ten for each? Wow.

Climax

 

[p123]

Oh yea, at least ten. But it all becomes about the narrative, a lot of it becomes conjecture.

For example, Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 because his power and his enraged power are viewed as two different things, thus he has to be at his Super Saiyan 2 power, or else why bring up his enraged power if Super Saiyan 2 alone can do it?

 

[ahill1]

Oh yea, at least ten. But it all becomes about the narrative, a lot of it becomes conjecture.

For example, Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 because his power and his enraged power are viewed as two different things, thus he has to be at his Super Saiyan 2 power, or else why bring up his enraged power if Super Saiyan 2 alone can do it?

Well, sometimes I feel his enranged powers were just his SSJ2. He was still not sure of his victory against fat Boo, while this same power was considered a lughing matter to Vegeta. That doesn't make much sense when Gohan's enranged powers were supposed to surpass even Goku SSJ2 and Majin Vegeta.

 

[p123]

Well let's talk about how the characters view his power.

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan- Vegeta is laughing this power off and considers Gohan Pathetic, Goku doesn't say anything but he doesn't disagree. Kaioshin talks about how this level of power wasn't even his true power.

Enraged Gohan- Vegeta isn't quite sure how he matches up to Gohan if he gets angry, Goku tells him flat out that unleashed all of his rage will make him stronger than anyone.

So I think that much is clear, that Enraged Gohan can surpass SSJ2 Gohan by a large amount.

It makes perfect sense when you realize that Gohan becoming enraged merely unleashes his dormant power. Training helps tap into his vast pool of power, but it's not everything. Gohan has grown into nearly a man, his dormant power as a 17 year old is much higher than it was as a 10 year old, which is why Gohan is able to have his power explode through the roof in one day of training with the Zeta Sword.


Enraged Teen Gohan > Enraged Kid Gohan > Kid Gohan > Teen Gohan

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, Vegeta really treats enranged Gohan in a different way he did his SSJ2's powers, yet we have Gohan saying he'd only manage something against fat Boo, who Vegeta laughed his way off. It's just pretty bad writing imo.

Besides, I don't know about teen Gohan accessing power greater than kid Gohan would be able to. Kid Gohan's power base was way bigger, so I'd like to see his enranged powers being also bigger than his teen self. Just like a Saiyan with a stronger base gets stronger with SSJ than a SSJ with a weaker base.

 

[p123]

You could interpret that differently if you want. Gohan can think he would be vastly superior to Buu, but is worried about bringing out his power, not that he couldn't beat Buu. Also, Gohan's power is unpredictable, he may very well not know exactly how strong he can become. Also, Gohan is not cocky like Vegeta is, we didn't see Goku laugh off Buu's power, yet we know he's just as strong as Vegeta.

That's logical, but Gohan being a young man having more dormant power than being a young boy who hasn't even hit being a teenager could be a huge factor too. Could go either way.

Goku is stronger than Kid Gohan, yet says that Teen Gohan can beat anyone if he unleashes his power like he did. Perhaps Goku thinks Gohan has a lot more in the tank than we do. Vegeta even talks about the unpredictability of the situation. I think my logic is sound.

 

[ahill1]

You could interpret that differently if you want. Gohan can think he would be vastly superior to Buu, but is worried about bringing out his power, not that he couldn't beat Buu.

He said he could manage something with true power, I don't see that implying he would end up being way higher than initial fat Boo.

Also, Gohan is not cocky like Vegeta is, we didn't see Goku laugh off Buu's power, yet we know he's just as strong as Vegeta.

Goku didn't despise fat Boo because he noted that was something strange about his chi, probably thinking he could still get way stronger:

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”

That could have something to do with Goku later stating Boo's chi is like a lie, I don't know:

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8
Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?”
Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…”

 

[Pocket-God]

Nah man, Gohan was SSJ3 they just forgot to draw the lightning and the longer hair and no eyebrows.

 

[p123]

He could manage something could be him being coy. As I said, his concern could be not Buu's power, but his inability to bring out his own power. This is plausible. Vegeta said that they could manage something against Dabura when Dabura shocked them. So there's a precedent for manage something not necessarily meaning what you interpret it to be.

You are right, but the point being, Vegeta and Goku's personality are not the same. Goku having an overwhelming advantage acts much differently than Vegeta does.

 

[ahill1]

Now that I looked it up, Gohan actually said "it doesn't seem like so much [fat Boo's power] there's nothing I can do", so the wording is a bit different. Gohan is basically saying that fat Boo isn't so powerful that the situation would be hopeless, which I can't factory with him having a pretty wide gap over fatso.

Gohan also said "if I can only put out my true power", so he's comparing fat Boo's power to his enranged power, therefore Gohan being concerned about his inability to do so doesn't matter much here imo.

Vegeta's reaction also seem unlikely if initial fat Boo isn't considerably weaker imo. We see how he changed his expressions as soon as Boo powered up and also see how he acted towards final form Freeza's initial power, who was more or less equal to his own.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Vegeta doesn't have to be greatly above Initial Fat Buu to laugh. He also laughed at Zarbon's power,
where the gap was small.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Vegeta knew that Fat Boo is a lot stronger than them all but since Kaioshin is so weak that made Vegeta to think that Boo isn't that terrifying.

Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P4.6, P5.4-6
Goku: “It’s a ki…! A huge ki has appeared…! Majin Boo has finally come out…”
Vegeta: “Fuffuffuh…Majin Boo, huh?...Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy he would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin! By his nature, Kaioshin is supposed to be someone tremendous, but have you ever once thought that he was incredible? Quite the opposite, it's Kaioshin who’s been bewildered…Majin Boo is fearsome from Kaioshin’s perspective, but from ours he’s not so much…”
Goku: “N-no…That’s not it…There’s something abnormal about this ki...”

 

[VampireWicked]

I'm not sure if this point has been brought up before, but:

Spoiler

Goku wasn't able to transform into a Super Saiyan at will at first, and said that he needed a lot of practice. I don't think any reasonable person would try to argue that Gohan practiced transforming into a Super Saiyan 2 a lot during the seven year gap given that it's stated he didn't train at all, so why would Gohan be able to transform into a SS2 at will?

Maybe all the hype Gohan fans has given him throughout the years, building him up to do anything & everything.

And by claiming Gohan was only a SuperSaiyan against Dabura gives Gohan an excuse for losing.

See Gohan being an AscendedSaiyan against Dabura means his followers will have to admit there was someone stronger then Gohan.