Freeza arc - Android arc BP

[Future Warrior]

Freeza arc

Goku
~ Base - 7,500,000
~ Kaio-Ken x10 - 75,000,000
~ Kaio-Ken x20 - 150,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 375,000,000

Vegeta
~ Full power - 480,000
~ Zenkai - 4,800,000

Freeza
~ 1st Form - 530,000
~ 2nd form (Initial) - 1,060,000
~ 2nd form (Power Up) - 1,350,000
~ 2nd Form (Full power) - 1,600,000
~ 3rd Form - 2,400,000
~ True Form (Initial) - 5,000,000
~ True Form (Increased speed) - 6,000,000
~ True Form (No hands) - 7,500,000
~ True Form (50%) - 180,000,000
~ True Form (70%) - 250,000,000
~ True Form (100%) - 360,000,000

Piccolo
~ Weighted - 1,440,000
~ Full power - 1,800,000

Gohan
~ Initial - 300,000
~ Enraged - 900,000
~ Zenkai - 900,000

Kuririn
~ Full power - 250,000

Mecha Freeza arc

Goku
~ Base - 15,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 750,000,000

Trunks
~ Base - 12,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 600,000,000

Cyborg Freeza
~ Initial - 250,000,000
~ Full power - 400,000,000

King Cold
~ Full power - 250,000,000

Piccolo
~ Full power - 9,600,000

Vegeta
~ Full power - 10,000,000

Gohan
~ Full power - 1,200,000

Kuririn
~ Full power - 360,000

Tenshinhan
~ Full power - 120,000

Yamcha
~ Full power - 60,000

Android arc

Goku
~ Base - 24,000,000
~ Super Saiyan (Sick) - 900,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 1,200,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base - 25,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 1,250,000,000

Trunks
~ Base - 22,500,000
~ Super Saiyan - 1,125,000,000

Piccolo
~ Full power - 960,000,000
~ Post Kami (Weights) - 1,650,000,000
~ Post Kami - 1,920,000,000

Gohan
~ Full power - 18,750,000

Kuririn
~ Full power - 15,000,000

Tenshinhan
~ Full power - 7,500,000

Yamcha
~ Full power - 5,000,000

Android #19
~ Initial - 540,000,000
~ Post Absorbtion - 675,000,000

Android #20
~ Initial - 650,000,000
~ Post Absorbtion - 800,000,000

Cyborg #18
~ Full power - 1,562,500,000

Cyborg #17
~ Full power - 1,875,000,000

 

[withheldforprivacy]

So, Alternate Seventeen used like 20% of his power against Two Armed Alternate Gohan?

 

[Future Warrior]

So, Alternate Seventeen used like 20% of his power against Two Armed Alternate Gohan?

Why?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

You have Alternate Trunks (Freeza) at less than 30% of Alternate Seventeen.

 

[Future Warrior]

You have Alternate Trunks (Freeza) at less than 30% of Alternate Seventeen.

That's present androids.

 

[freezamite]

Too high. I mean, with base Goku already at 7 millions, how do you explain:
1. That he couldn't even lift 40 tons in the Bu saga.

And this is even more difficult to explain:
Piccolo Post Kami - 1,920,000,000

So Cell went from being considerably weaker in Ginger Town to completely overpowering him by absorbing "some hundreds of thousands of humans" while the power level was that big?
Did Cell absorb the other z-warriors or did the human race become all saiyans in order for that to be possible?

 

[Future Warrior]

Too high. I mean, with base Goku already at 7 millions, how do you explain:
1. That he couldn't even lift 40 tons in the Bu saga.

And this is even more difficult to explain:
Piccolo Post Kami - 1,920,000,000

So Cell went from being considerably weaker in Ginger Town to completely overpowering him by absorbing "some hundreds of thousands of humans" while the power level was that big?
Did Cell absorb the other z-warriors or did the human race become all saiyans in order for that to be possible?

So Boo Saga Goku is only 320x stronger than 23rd Budokai Goku? Weight lifting strength clearly isn't consistent.

Cell's absorbtion's aren't related to the person's battle power.

 

[p123]

Agreed, he's absorbing more than just their ki, he's absorbing their life force.

 

[freezamite]

Too high. I mean, with base Goku already at 7 millions, how do you explain:
1. That he couldn't even lift 40 tons in the Bu saga.

And this is even more difficult to explain:
Piccolo Post Kami - 1,920,000,000

So Cell went from being considerably weaker in Ginger Town to completely overpowering him by absorbing "some hundreds of thousands of humans" while the power level was that big?
Did Cell absorb the other z-warriors or did the human race become all saiyans in order for that to be possible?

So Boo Saga Goku is only 320x stronger than 23rd Budokai Goku? Weight lifting strength clearly isn't consistent.

Cell's absorbtion's aren't related to the person's battle power.

It's true that there are a ton of inconsistencies in DB's feats if you analyse the series from beginning to end (it started as a gag manga, with mutenroshi being able to blow the moon with a fraction of the strength that was required to do that same feat afterwards), but from the saiyan saga onwards the series became much more serious than before and also much more consistent:
8k Goku could move at 10G.
90k Goku could move at 100G and then trained for a bit more.
And the 40 tons feat puts him at 300k more or less, which is also consistent with what's said in the manga.
Even if not mathematically exact, there seems to be a certain consistency here.

Regarding Cell's absorptions, they were clearly related to the ones he sucked, as Piccolo stated:

Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P1.1
Context: after regenerating his arm while fighting Cell
Piccolo: “Cell, even if I take into account the energy you sucked from my arm, I’m still more powerful than you. Brace yourself!”

That one was clearly stated just a couple of chapters before giving us the numbers of humans Cell absorbed, so it's even a more exact metric.

 

[Super Neko Majin Z]

The issue isn't that Goku's base is in the millions and he can't lift 40 tons, the issue is that he can blow up goddamn planets, but barely lifting 40 tons is his best lifting feat so far.

Also, the start of Z is in this "serious" period, and I assume you have BoZ Goku at 416. If so, by your logic he should be moving around in 0.5G.

 

[p123]

Isn't Kaio's planet 10x gravity?

 

[Void]

Kind of bloated but the numbers line up well. Nice job.

 

[SSJ2]

I think you have Piccolo-Nail too high. A 1.125x gap over FP Freeza seems slightly excessive. Remember that Vegeta stated Freeza had taken some damage from Piccolo, so maybe that gap works for Piccolo vs damaged 2nd Form Freeza, but I think Piccolo at 1.7 million works better.

 

[p123]

What difference does it make if Freeza is 91% of Piccolo or 94%?

Thanks Paladin. I agree, they look hugely bloated, but there is a sense of logic to them. DBZ has always been ridiculously bloated, like all the time, we are generally a lot more conservative with our levels than is ever suggested. But, yea...

 

[SSJ2]

Well, I think Gohan implies it would still be a tough battle when he says "we can win". 91% would still be a tough battle, but a good deal easier than 94.

 

[freezamite]

The issue isn't that Goku's base is in the millions and he can't lift 40 tons, the issue is that he can blow up goddamn planets, but barely lifting 40 tons is his best lifting feat so far.

Also, the start of Z is in this "serious" period, and I assume you have BoZ Goku at 416. If so, by your logic he should be moving around in 0.5G.

Why? When he had 8k he had already been able to move freely in 10G for a good time. The same for when the 100G feat, he already moved at it with no problem before reaching 90k.
Now, yeah, 40 tons would imply that DB goku shouldn't be able to move in the earth (even 416 Goku not being able to move at 10G means that beginning of series Goku shouldn't be able to move at all at 1G), but that's what happens when you start a manga and don't start measuring strength nor giving gravity feats until much later.
I mean, another good example of that is the zenkay power. It was never implied that Goku became stronger after being healed of his injuries before this plot device was introduced. So of course you could find a lot of instances in the pre-Namek saga where Goku didn't have the zenkays he should've had, but as every single plot device that's introduced in a series, it only can work AFTER it has been introduced.

Now, are 40 tons too low for Goku? Yes, but what I want to point when I bring that fact is not a "hey, that's mathematically exact for the whole series" but more a "look, Toriyama had that idea on mind and he supported it with feats". What Toriyama probably did with the 40 tons feat was to just put a number that seemed high enough to him considering that Goku wasn't getting any stronger since Namek, in the same way that when he gave the "hundreds of thousands of absorbed people" he just wanted to transmit an idea of what he had on mind.
It doesn't need to be an exactly caclculated mathematical formula, but to transmit an idea. And the idea there was that Goku's base limit didn't grew from Namek, confirming what had been stated at least twice in the series.

Clearly surpassing means a noticeable difference, not hardly surpassing or so.

But that "clearly" is just how the enlgish translation handled it. Herm's translation (which was done just to reflect exactly what was said in terms of power, so I considere it the best one because the aim of it was precisely to be as precise and faithful to the original as possible) doesn't say anything about it "clearly" surpassing him. He just said Piccolo was stronger, but it wasn't specified by how much.

Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P11.7
Vegeta: “The battle power I sensed then really did surpass mine, as a Super Saiyan…Im-impossible…He’s just a Namekian...”

p123

To explain the tank, perhaps Vegeta wasn't going all out yet? Because clearly the next round, she had her hands full. She dismisses him again afterwards, but perhaps she raised her level as well.

More than Vegeta not going all out, it's him just firing a fast ki blast (with not a lot of power on it). She had been figthing him seriously since round 2 (at least if we don't think she was lying there).

 

[p123]

Piccolo: “Damn him! You may be more powerful, but I’m faster! You couldn’t catch up to me even if you spent your entire lifetime!”

If he thinks he's faster than 3rd Form Freeza, why would he only be barely faster than 2nd Form?