Freeza fight power levels

[Goku9001]

Piccolo Weighted is 90% of Freeza. So do you view this gap the same as Cell vs Goku? We've always likened this gap to Gero vs Piccolo. What do you have that gap as?

More or less yeah.

I have Gero vs. Piccolo close to an 80/100 gap.

 

[FeatsofPower]

More or less yeah.

I have Gero vs. Piccolo close to an 80/100 gap.

Great. Piccolo vs Freeza should be around that.

 

[Goku9001]

Great. Piccolo vs Freeza should be around that.

Nah, not necessary.

 

[ahill1]

If I were making my own, disregarding the 3M, it'd be as follows below (btw I disregard most Daiz numbers, I just see the 3M as being totally manageable...)


Freeza (2nd form) 1,060,000
-- power up 1,200,000

Weighted Piccolo 1,250,000
Unweighted Piccolo 1,580,000

Freeza 2nd form (FP) 1,500,000

Freeza 3rd form 2,100,000

Freeza final form (initially) 3,250,000

Vegeta (post Zenkai) 3,000,000

Freeza (post speed and power increase) 4,500,000

Goku (post Zenkai) 4,300,000

100% Freeza 200,000,000

SSJ Goku 215,000,000


Getting carrried away, if I continued


Mecha Freeza 225,000,000
SSj Trunks 300,000,000
SSJ Goku 350,000,000

--- 3 years


Sick SSJ Goku initially 400,000,000

Android 19 (pre) 280,000,000
-- post 350,000,000

Android 20 (pre) 320,000,000
-- post 385,000,000

Piccolo 450,000,000

SSJ Trunks 530,000,000
SSJ Goku 575,000,000
SSJ Vegeta 600,000,000


Damn, looks pretty liiiiittttt

 

[FeatsofPower]

Nah, not necessary.

How so? Piccolo gets trashed instantly.

 

[Goku9001]

How so? Piccolo gets trashed instantly.

He immediately recovers from Frieza's assault. I view it no differently than Cell vs. Goku except the speed differential between Piccolo and Frieza isn't as large.

 

[ahill1]

How can you judge that as similar to Piccolo Vs Gero? What level of similarities does those fights have? If anythig, this thing like appearing from above like Freeza did and punching remembers me Zarbon Vs Vegeta round 1, with Vegeta being too much for Zarbon to keep up and appearing from behind with Zarbon noticing short noticed and kicking him, but without much damage. Or like Vegeta Vs Goku when Vegeta hit 18k, that battle that Goku isn't instantly trashed and Vegeta needs to put in the effort but Goku is doing everything at his reach and not being able to keep up with Vegeta, who's moving too fast and at too high peaced. If I were to gauge fights, and try to apply gaps to them, which I don't generally do, I'd say those fights in which the stronger opponent is constantly moving around to keep it too high peaced while the weaker fighter has to do everything to stay in the game but is clearly getting outpaced is more in line with a 88%. Piccolo Vs Gero being one in which Piccolo isn't even keeping a constant pressure, he's just calm.and pressuring without putting too much intensity in moving forward. I view that gap as 83 ~ 85 more or less since Piccolo still did put in the effort to throw his knees and chops. Utter dominance in which the other is flabbergasted and is trashed I generally see as 1.33x or 1.5x, the latter which happens in a few shots.

 

[FeatsofPower]

He immediately recovers from Frieza's assault. I view it no differently than Cell vs. Goku except the speed differential between Piccolo and Frieza isn't as large.

And Gero recovers quickly too

 

[Goku9001]

And Gero recovers quickly too

The two fights are incomparable. Frieza was in a rush to attack Piccolo as hard as possible and constantly slammed him into the ground whereas Piccolo was fairly calm and composed while battling Android 20. The moment Piccolo slammed Android 20 into the ground, Android 20 was completely helpless. The only thing that kept him in the fight as long as he did was due to his resistance of pain which you conveninently ignored. Piccolo held his own against 2nd Form Frieza better than Kaioken Goku did against Vegeta so I don't really see the problem here.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gero doesn’t feel pain. Why would he take time to recover?

 

[FeatsofPower]

I’ll have to check the fights again. Show me the comparisons of how it’s a 90% gap here I need to see the proof

 

[Goku9001]

I’ll have to check the fights again. Show me the comparisons of how it’s a 90% gap here I need to see the proof

Exhibit A:

Spoiler

Exhibit B:

Spoiler

Exhibit C:

Spoiler

1. Cell and Frieza both catch Goku and Piccolo with their speed unexpectedly.
2. Goku does manage to recover enough to throw a punch while Piccolo is knocked down again. However, Piccolo manages to evade the follow-up and Goku is knocked down this time.
3. Both Piccolo and Goku fly up to escape but Frieza and Cell zip behind them and slams them into the ground.

Goku's recovery is more impressive but Frieza initiated a sledgehammer whereas Cell merely swatted him with one arm. Piccolo does look bruised up but he easily recovers from the assault. Goku was at least fazed by Cell's assault because the next punch Cell lands on Goku does stagger him quite a bit.

Spoiler

I can get behind Cell vs. Goku being slightly smaller but the fights almost play out the same in my eyes.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I can get behind Cell vs. Goku being slightly smaller but the fights almost play out the same in my eyes.

This has been very good. Yeah it’s been an eye opener for me, I think I’m willing to budge a few percentage points here but probably not much more than that. I’ll have to look over these fights in more detail.

I’d probably be good with 86% gap now or so.

I think that’s generally what I’ve been doing.

Freeza 1,060,000
Powered Up 1,350,000
Full Power 1,600,000

Piccolo 1,375,000
Full Power 1,750,000

What’s the issue with this other than making the 3 mil not work?

 

[ahill1]

Very nice comparison, Goku9001

Your mumbers are fine P, but I see Piccolo being 1,500,000 at FP as sufficient.

Freeza being 1,850,000 in his second transformation... You may consider it a small gap, but how can you quantify that? That may be bigger than Vegeta's advantage over Dodoria. Imagine Vegeta throwing lots of powerful finger mini blasts to Dodoria... I can see him being totally overwhelmed the same way. Freeza appearing in front of Piccolo is kinda impressive, but is that a quantifiable feat? I think that's different from Goku not being seen by the Ginyus, Piccolo was amidst battle and overconfident he wouldn't be caught up. He didn't prepare for that kind of speed. I don't think there's anything objectively saying 1,850,000 for 3rd form Freeza is too low.

Then him going 2,500,000. That's more than a 1.33x increase to an already unbelievable level... I can see all the commotion it caused. Sometimes characters don't expect much of a transformation despite having seen previous ones. Vegeta believed Freeza wouldn't change much if he transformed in his 2nd form despite witnessing Zarbon before... The same Vegeta sensed Imperfect Cell pre absorptions and then Semi Cell later on and was fine with letting him go one more transformation. Arrogance sure, but it may show that when one is already so powerful, even a not so noticeable increase as the one before can be very shocking. Someone is breaking the record of an already unbelievable power by a big margin, even if the jump wasn't proportionally as big, is still too much... Like, he was already so powerful, he managed to break that by another level still. And may also showcase a Goku vs Ginyu territory in Freeza final form initially vs Piccolo, where Piccolo couldn't even see the attacks, while before he could kinda see the beams coming vs 3rd form but couldn't react in time. So a 1,500,000 vs 2,500,000 range is already bearing the 60/100 god like of Goku vs Ginyus. Then Freeza goes to slightly above 3,000,000 and that's already more than a 2x gap over Piccolo. If you think Kami's merging is 2x, then imagine a pre merge Piccolo vs android 17... Piccolo treated the androids like Gods, saying they were too, too powerful. Kuririn even said Piccolo going to the last resort may imply how monstrous the enemies are. Yet we don't see it generally as more than 2x pre merge Piccolo.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Freeza’s first transformation doubled his power.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSJ is a 50x boost but the subsequent forms aren’t anywhere near that.

 

[FeatsofPower]

SSJ is a 50x boost but the subsequent forms aren’t anywhere near that.

Because of a plethora of evidence to go against that.

There’s not much in way of evidence to suggest Freeza isn’t getting tremendous boost continuously rather the opposite.

Freeza is stated to have powered up astoundingly and many comments on his never ending power.

1.1x boosts have been associated with such comments before but that should be the exception not the rule.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But do 1.33x statements not fit this?

 

[FeatsofPower]

But do 1.33x statements not fit this?

These guys are arguing for 1.1x power ups essentially across the board.

They are willing to change all of their logic to make the guidebook number work. It’s heavy duty bias.

 

[SIAD]

2nd Form Frieza:
~ Initial: 1,060,000
~ Powered Up: 1,300,000
~ Full Power: 1,550,000

Piccolo:
~ Weighted: 1,350,000
~ Full Power: 1,600,000

3rd Form Frieza: 1,950,000

4th Form Frieza:
~Initial: 2,200,000
~vs. Vegeta/Warm Up: 2,700,000
~vs. Vegeta(Kick)/No Hands: 3,200,000

Vegeta:
~ Full Power: 2,200,000
~ Full Power (Blast): 2,750,000

Goku:
~ Warm Up: 2,600,000
~ Full Power: 3,000,000

The numbers look good man.

@Goku9001

I like these power levels.

I don't know if it's a bad translation into Latin Spanish, but I remember that Frieza, when he transformed for the second time, said that his power and his abilities were doubled. That's true? And if so, shouldn't it be Frieza Third Form = 2x Frieza Second Form (FP)?