Freeza kicking Vegeta’s blast > increased speed?

[SSJ2]

Piccolo is in absolute disbelief that Freeza could kick back that blast. So even after seeing Freeza’s increased speed making a fool out of Vegeta, he still was shocked? Sounds to me like Freeza kicking back the blast is another level.

 

[Warmmedown]

Ki amp

IIRC Piccolo also made some comment about being faster than Freeza even when he was weaker than Freeza, so probably sees speed and power as separate. But I think the main thing is ki amp. Could also just be that they're gradually coming to terms with the power, as they're in disbelief over how strong Freeza is and how far behind they all are. They could hope that Vegeta could've not been going all out to begin with, but now they know for sure he's way behind Freeza.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah, this becomes difficult because they are always shocked. Try to name a blast that wasn't easily handled that didn't shock everyone.

And yeah, kicking back blast > Increased Speed is fine but we have tight margins here.

If Vegeta 75
Blast 100

Where does Freeza Fit?

Increased Speed 90
Kicking Back Blast 110

But Vegeta literally can't see Freeza. So it might be better of Freeza was 110 speed the whole time and they are just surprised he has the power to match the speed as well.

 

[SSJ2]

Vegeta’s blast could be stronger than you’re giving it credit for.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Vegeta’s blast could be stronger than you’re giving it credit for.

So he's no longer limited by the 1.33x ki amp? Why didn't he use this higher amp against Goku on Earth or against Nappa on Namek?

Did his ki amp progress with his zenkai perhaps?

 

[SSJ2]

So he's no longer limited by the 1.33x ki amp? Why didn't he use this higher amp against Goku on Earth or against Nappa on Namek?

Did his ki amp progress with his zenkai perhaps?

Well, I’d have to think that all of the progress he made on Ki control contributed to becoming more proficient. I’d say that’s ground for an increase.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Well, I’d have to think that all of the progress he made on Ki control contributed to becoming more proficient. I’d say that’s ground for an increase.

When Goku is shocked by Raditz ability to catch the Kamehameha, does that mean Raditz increased his ability he used to fight Goku previously?

 

[Power Level Guy]

Let's see.

Goku is shocked by King Piccolo's ability to tank the Kamehameha. Is King Piccolo > Expected Piccolo?

Every single blast has this issue. Is the fighter who handles the blast always stronger than expected? Or is something else going on?

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think the way ki blast work is kind of like what happens when you throw your hardest punch at someone and they just laugh it off. Like, even if you knew Mike Tyson was going to do that, it's still shocking and humiliating.

I don't think every fight has a Actual Opponent Level > Expected Opponent Level.

It happens no doubt.

For example, Roshi seems to up his speed against Yamcha's Wolf Fang Fist and there seems to be a notable increase in speed as well as the reactions.

Now, how does this differ here? I'm not entirely sure.

Piccolo is expecting Vegeta's attack to possibly kill Freeza and wipe out the whole planet. But then Freeza kicks it back.

It seems like a clear....

Actual Freeza > Final Burst Cannon > Expected Freeza > Vegeta

But it becomes tricky imo.

Do you consider this to be the same issue as with Goku's Kamehameha versus King Piccolo?

 

[Power Level Guy]

And however strong you have the Final Burst Cannon, you will have to apply to the BBA, which should be significantly stronger using your own logic of increased ki control I'd say.

 

[GSM123]

Let's see.

Goku is shocked by King Piccolo's ability to tank the Kamehameha. Is King Piccolo > Expected Piccolo?

Every single blast has this issue. Is the fighter who handles the blast always stronger than expected? Or is something else going on?

Wait, I brought this up on the Raditz thread and you dismissed it.

 

[SSJ2]

When Goku is shocked by Raditz ability to catch the Kamehameha, does that mean Raditz increased his ability he used to fight Goku previously?

I do think so, yes. Goku wasn't getting one shotted by Raditz in the hand to hand combat just prior, suggesting Raditz wasn't giving his all.

Do you consider this to be the same issue as with Goku's Kamehameha versus King Piccolo?

King Piccolo is a fair comparison. You could be right.

 

[AngelBorninHell]

Vegeta's blast was aimed to kill Frieza, becomes clear was stronger than Frieza and he did something similar like when he stopped KKx20 Goku's Kamehameha (e.g he used one bigger percentage of his power to counter it).

 

[Power Level Guy]

@GreatSaiyaman123

I was just joking. This is a topic we need to delve into more. It does happen all the time though, so we have to work through each one I think. Where are you at on this? Are they just shocked because of story or is there an Actual > Expected thing going on here.

@SSJ2

So what is your Raditz chain?

Full Power > Power-Up > Initial?

And Raditz starts using full power once Goku launches the Kamehameha?

What is your power chain for King Piccolo vs Goku?

 

[Dagon]

Maybe the speed of Freeza flying toward the blast made the kick stronger than if he kicked it while stationary. Like they might think he couldn't kick it back while stationary but underestimated his run-up kick power.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Maybe the speed of Freeza flying toward the blast made the kick stronger than if he kicked it while stationary. Like they might think he couldn't kick it back while stationary but underestimated his run-up kick power.

It’s weird.

I feel like they are just not associating his speed with his power, but remember Freeza is very nonchalant with his speed and uses full effort for kick.

Not sure how that translates power wise.

 

[SSJ2]

So what is your Raditz chain?

Full Power > Power-Up > Initial?

And Raditz starts using full power once Goku launches the Kamehameha?

What is your power chain for King Piccolo vs Goku?

Yeah that would be my chain.

King Piccolo (<50%) >>> Goku >~ Initial Piccolo

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah that would be my chain.

King Piccolo (<50%) >>> Goku >~ Initial Piccolo

No I mean, include Expected King Piccolo. What percentage of power is King Piccolo while fighting Goku before and then what level while taking on the Kamehameha?

No difference, right?

 

[Kyo]

right

 

[Power Level Guy]

right

So when is there a difference for blasts?

Does Freeza vs Final Burst Cannon fall into this?

Freeza FP > Final Burst Cannon > Freeza (Power-Up) > Freeza (Initial) >= Vegeta

Or did they assume Freeza's speed increased, but not his power?