Full Base Saiyan Chain

FeatsofPower

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Here's how it all starts out.

1. Base Saiyans > Piccolo > Android 18

The Saiyans make several statements suggesting that they can win the tournament in their normal forms, despite Piccolo and Android 18's participation. They seem to only be focused on each other being possible winners at the Budokai.

2. Expected Goku > Kaioshin

Kaioshin meets Goku, admits he could never beat him, but would to spar with him. Kaioshin does know about Super Saiyan as well.

3. Kaioshin > Piccolo

Piccolo seems to forfeit based on Kaioshin's deity, not necessarily his strength, but it seems to be assumed that it could be based on strength as well. Nothing contradicts this and when Kaioshin is being beat up by Buu, Piccolo seems to admit inferiority to Kaioshin once again here. I think he says something along the lines of, "Even Kaioshin is losing" or something like that.

4. Expected Saiyans = Expected Goku > Kaioshin > Piccolo

After the Budokai, Kaioshin seems to group the Saiyans together, unclear of which one is the strongest.

5. Majin Buu > Kaioshins > Freeza

Kaioshin brings up how Freeza was fodder to the Kaioshins and how fearsome Buu was for defeating them all. Piccolo is a Super Namekian and is without a doubt superior to Freeza established in the previous saga.

6. Expected Saiyans > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Freeza

So now this is our up to date chain with only the relevant people involved.

7. Saiyans > Piccolo/Kibito/Krillen

Dabura says that the Saiyans have marvelous energy and that the other three are trash.

8. Pui Pui > Expected Saiyans > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Freeza

Kaioshin expects Badibi to have the strongest fighters in the universe under his control and wants to attack Pui Pui as a group, thinking they are in big trouble early on. Badibi expects Pui Pui to easily wipe the floor with the Saiyans, and Kaioshin is helpless to stop them.

9. Vegeta > Pui Pui > Expected Saiyans > Kaioshin

Vegeta is easily handling Pui Pui.

10. Vegeta (Finishing Pui Pui) > Vegeta > Pui Pui > Expected Saiyans > Kaioshin

Vegeta seems to surprise Pui Pui with his speed, his aura is drawn even more fiercely and Kaioshin and Badibi are shocked by Vegeta being able to kill Pui Pui in that manner, I think it's clear Vegeta used a bit more power to finish the job here.

11. Expected Saiyans = Vegeta Finishing Pui Pui

Now the new norm is that all the Saiyans should be around this level.

12. Yakon > New Expected Saiyans > Pui Pui

Badibi realizes that the Saiyans are far more powerful than advertised and how little Pui PUi was able to do. Badibi is nervous and decides to send in Yakon, who he and Dabura believe can kill all three Saiyans at once. Once again Kaioshin is not a factor, he hasn't been this whole time and his placement doesn't change.

13. Yakon ~ Goku > New Expected Saiyans

Yakon seems to make Badibi happy in that he's relevant to Goku, but it's nowhere near the expectation Dabura said previously. Badibi isn't sure if Yakon needs the Dark Planet, but sends him there anyway.

14. Base Goku >= Yakon > Vegeta > Gohan > New Expected Saiyans > Expected Saiyans > Pui Pui > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Freeza

Seems to be our final chain.


The Base Saiyans are tremendous beasts who's power no doubt came from RoSaT training. They are insanely powerful and make the Super Namek Piccolo look like yesterday's trash. Remember, a severely weakened expectation of them is enough to make Piccolo look like trash and Kaioshin has never expected to be able to match any of them.

This is the only way to break down the Badibi ship segment.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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The Saiyans make several statements suggesting that they can win the tournament in their normal forms, despite Piccolo and Android 18's participation. They seem to only be focused on each other being possible winners at the Budokai.

I thought it was only Vegeta?
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Gohan suggests fighting the tournament to Base to Vegeta and the others despite wanting to win the prize money.

Goku says they don’t have to worry about anyone else but Kibito and Kaioshin.

Gohan values his privacy over the cash. Do you think he expected to beat Goku and Vegeta?

I don’t remember the exact line, but I always thought Goku meant the gang as a role, not just the Saiyans.
 

Yoshi

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Kibito Kai > Base Goku > Yakon > Base Vegeta > Base Gohan > Pui Pui > Kaioshin > Kibito > Piccolo > Base Trunks > Base Goten > Android #17 > Android #18 > Babidi > Freeza > Krillin

Now if only we can make the numbers work.
 

Power Level Guy

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There is only one answer to this. There is no other way around it. Gohan's rage boost must have unlocked his true power, which needs to exceed everything. There is simply no other way.

Gohan's rage boost unlocks his true power, and everyone catches up to him after.

We have confirmed canon material that the boys = Cell Jrs. And the boys struggle with 18 in Base, which lines up with how we view Future Trunks vs Future Androids.

The Buu Saga powers are on a completely different tier than the Cell Games powers.
 

Power Level Guy

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Damn, that doesn't work either. Shoot, I think Kid Gohan has to be much stronger than Goku at the CG then to make this gap even somewhat work.
 

Dagon

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Does the 3000/800 kili ratio indicate a low SSJ multiplier?
I take it as a nonlinear scale for kili.


There is only one answer to this. There is no other way around it. Gohan's rage boost must have unlocked his true power, which needs to exceed everything. There is simply no other way.

Gohan's rage boost unlocks his true power, and everyone catches up to him after.

We have confirmed canon material that the boys = Cell Jrs. And the boys struggle with 18 in Base, which lines up with how we view Future Trunks vs Future Androids.

The Buu Saga powers are on a completely different tier than the Cell Games powers.
Let's see the numbers that forced you to go this route.
 

Power Level Guy

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Let's see the numbers that forced you to go this route.
Well just look at it.


Super Saiyan Kid Gohan 1,500
Super Saiyan Goku (CG) 1,000
Ssj Kid Trunks/Cell Jrs 600
Base Kid Gohan 30
Base Goku 20
Base Kid Trunks 12


Base Saiyans > Pui Pui > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Base Boys simply won't fit in here.

CG Goku can only be around 1.5x the Cell Jrs, and then Kid Gohan can only be around 1.5x Goku.

That gets us around Kid Gohan being around 2.25x the Cell Juniors, whereas we need something more in line with 10x.

There's just no way to make it work mathematically.


Now it's possible that since the Base Saiyans were underrated, perhaps Piccolo is underrated too.

Perhaps Kaioshin is the most overrated here since his statement is not based on power at all.
 

Power Level Guy

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You know what? Piccolo > Kaioshin is the best route.

Piccolo MUST be relative to the Base Saiyans, why? Because we have proof he's stronger than the Base Boys. The Base Boys are proven to be relative to the Adults with their powers being on par with a Cell Jr.

This is the only way.
 

SSJ2

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Kaioshin > Piccolo is based on next to nothing anyway. It's all about Piccolo's expectation of how strong Kaioshin is, which is based on nothing as Kaioshin can't be sensed. Piccolo either backed out due to not wanting to fight the highest god in the cosmos, or he genuinely thought Kaioshin would be that strong but it ended up being incorrect.
 

Power Level Guy

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Kaioshin > Piccolo is based on next to nothing anyway. It's all about Piccolo's expectation of how strong Kaioshin is, which is based on nothing as Kaioshin can't be sensed. Piccolo either backed out due to not wanting to fight the highest god in the cosmos, or he genuinely thought Kaioshin would be that strong but it ended up being incorrect.
Yeah, that's all we can conclude.

It's the weakest part of the chain. Everything else has rock solid information on it.
 

Lucifer

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The base saiyans are at the same level from the androids Arc. They were never shown or stated to have increased their power further after hitting the wall.
 

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