FUNIMATION LEAKS

ahill1

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Captain Cadaver said:
ahill1 said:
Adult Swim Sketches =/= Multiple 1st & 2nd Hand Accounts of Sexual Harassment & Assault.
There's indeed no comparison, because allegations without a shred of solid proof =/= Actual evidence :troll

That, and the leaks are just the tip of the iceburg, given the recent information made apparent about Sabat's casting couch.
You claimed that there was a hypocrisy, but there's none. At all.

Let's say we lived in an alternate universe where the Vic thing never happened and this audio still leaked. Even in that scenario, no one would give a flying fuck. At all. At most, at MOST, people would raise an eyebrow at Schemmel's onslaught of the word "faggot", but that's about as far as it would go.

Apart from that though? The rest of it is just the cast cursing and making dumb sex jokes in their character voices and goofing off. It's literally the epitome of nothing. Outtakes like this happen literally ALL the time in nearly EVERY production out there: actors get slap-happy doing endless takes of the same scenes over and over and over and start getting silly and crude after awhile.

On the flipside, Vic's had literal decades worth of beyond credible accusations of SEXUAL HARASSMENT from an endless throng of unrelated and unconnected women and young girls, including groping and grabbing at underage fans. There's even photographic evidence in several cases, as well as corroboration from numerous people who worked as convention staff and even some members of Team Four Star. Hell, he reportedly even harassed Mari Iijima of all. Fucking Minmay herself wasn't even safe from this creep.

So to review: on the one hand with Vic, we have decades worth of confirmed sexual assault (in general, and particularly with minors) versus the leaked audio, which is just a bunch of actors goofing off cursing in-character between takes.

No hypocrisy or double standards at all.
 

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ahill1 said:
On the flipside, Vic's had literal decades worth of beyond credible accusations of SEXUAL HARASSMENT
Only if we live in a reality where the words "beyond credible accusations" instead mean "allegations without any hard evidence".

Hell, the lack of evidence beyond a joke involving a freaking jelly bean was so apparent that now Vic is being able to sue Funimation for slander.

from an endless throng of unrelated and unconnected women and young girls, including groping and grabbing at underage fans.
The most he's been shown to do is hug, touch a shoulder or give a peck on the cheek to fans who requested it.
It's very easy to supply "evidence" when completely ignoring context.

Meanwhile, what followed the leaks were testimonies from Stephanie Nadoly and Chuck Huber that Sabat was committing sexual assault on female voice actors and threw Vic under the bus due to he and a lot of Funimation's staff not liking him. A far more concise story, given the major casting changes starting with DB Kai and Vic's strong Christian morality clashing with Sabat's ideology (reports even stating that Sabat said many anti-Christian remarks to Vic) and those of the rest of the company when considering their political leanings.

corroboration from numerous people who worked as convention staff and even some members of Team Four Star. Hell, he reportedly even harassed Mari Iijima of all. Fucking Minmay herself wasn't even safe from this creep.
"Reportedly" did so, as in having no solid evidence of him doing any of the serious allegations he was accused of.
TFS have some ties to Funimation's clique, given they're on good terms with Sabat, so to say their testimony is an honest one would be sceptical at best.

Also, the Mari Ijima story was swiftly debunked as just second-hand slander from both Brett Weaver and ANN, with photo evidence proving otherwise:

[youtube]Ii9MvbpqMz8[/youtube]

So to review: on the one hand with Vic, we have decades worth of confirmed sexual assault (in general, and particularly with minors) versus the leaked audio, which is just a bunch of actors goofing off cursing in-character between takes.

No hypocrisy or double standards at all.
To review: We have Vic having his career destroyed over skewered charges that are very likely to be false and the most he can be solidly accused of (to the extent it became part of the trail when no better evidence could be found) was a joke, yet jokes of a more severe nature aren't held to the same standard.

More so, we have far more damning evidence of Sabat being the one actually sexually assaulting women within Funimation coming off the back of these leaks, yet Funimation desperately advocates the clear evidence doesn't exist whilst pointing blame at Vic.
There's indeed hypocrisy within all of this when it comes to objective evidence in the treatment of one's career.
 

ahill1

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Captain Cadaver said:
Only if we live in a reality where the words "beyond credible accusations" instead mean "allegations without any hard evidence".
And to plenty of fans who DIDN'T request it. You conveniently left that key part out. And he didn't just "hug" them: he's reportedly grabbed and groped inappropriately/sexually as well. Among other things.

Oh but I know: "We weren't there, we didn't see it happen, all we have is the word of like, dozens and dozens of fans from across more than a decade+, who come from all over the country, who all don't know one another, and have all of ZERO reason or motivation to lie... but none of us were physically present to see it, so WHO KNOWS? He said/she said!"
Meanwhile, what followed the leaks were testimonies from Stephanie Nadoly and Chuck Huber that Sabat was committing sexual assault on female voice actors and threw Vic under the bus due to he and a lot of Funimation's staff not liking him.
Wait... so you DON'T accept the word of like a dozen different unconnected people confirming something that was already an OPEN SECRET among convention staff and fandom for nearly 20 years (to the point people had known about it for well over a decade and a half)... but you're PERFECTLY WILLING to fully 100% accept up front a SINGLE claim from two people (one of them who's general level of... lets say "mental caliber" is HIGHLY suspect) that just suddenly popped up for the very first time super-recently out of the clear blue?

...ok.
A far more concise story, given the major casting changes starting with DB Kai and Vic's strong Christian morality clashing with Sabat's ideology (reports even stating that Sabat said many anti-Christian remarks to Vic) and those of the rest of the company when considering their political leanings.
Lol... you think that the recasting of a couple of voices in Kai was part of some elaborate backstage conspiracy to cover for Sabat sexually harassing Stephanie Nadolny? And I suppose Linda Young as well, since she was also recast? And that Vic's firing is purely because both Sabat and FUNimation as a whole had it in for the guy all this time all along because Vic's such a "straight-laced Christian" and Sabat and FUNimation as a whole are all a bunch of godless heathen atheist liberals who simply hate Vic for having more conservative beliefs?

Never mind the fact that Chuck Huber, who's still gainfully employed at FUNimation last I checked, is apparently an even BIGGER religious fundie than Vic, and no one's calling him out for any sexual misdeeds or threatening his career. Or never mind the fact that if Vic was so seethingly hated personally by Sabat and by the company as a whole (from Fukanaga on down), they could have simply just FIRED the guy any time they liked ages and ages ago.

And you think that THAT is somehow the "more concise" and believable story than "Vic was overly handsy with young girls at conventions for many, many years and people kept quiet about it and tried to ignore/gloss over it simply so as not to 'rock the boat' as it were?

That's nonsense at its finest.
Reportedly" did so, as in having no solid evidence of him doing any of the serious allegations he was accused of.
TFS have some ties to Funimation's clique, given they're on good terms with Sabat, so to say their testimony is an honest one would be sceptical at best.
Oh, so TFS are ALSO in on the anti-Vic conspiracy plot too? I assume because his God-fearing Christian morals clashes so badly with their deviant, homosexual-tolerating lifestyles?
To review: We have Vic having his career destroyed over skewered charges that are very likely to be false and the most he can be solidly accused of (to the extent it became part of the trail when no better evidence could be found) was a joke, yet jokes of a more severe nature aren't held to the same standard.

More so, we have far more damning evidence of Sabat being the one actually sexually assaulting women within Funimation coming off the back of these leaks, yet Funimation desperately advocates the clear evidence doesn't exist whilst pointing blame at Vic.
There's indeed hypocrisy within all of this when it comes to objective evidence in the treatment of one's career.
Again, the word of countless dozens of unconnected, unrelated young girls from across DECADES (to the point where much of fandom, including guys who are only VAGUELY aware, at best, of anything that goes on with any of the FUNi cast, had been hearing about this since eons and eons long, long ago, decades pre-#MeToo, pre-Redpills and whatnot) all coming forward with a similar pattern of harassment sets off your bullshit alarm... but ONE CLAIM that just suddenly sprang up out of nowhere like what, a week ago now? That's 1000% air-tight right off the bat? To the point that it instantly reads as "elaborate backstage, anti-Christian conspiracy plot"?

Serious, honest question: don't you just see how ridiculous that sounds?

And finally with regards to the Jelly Bean joke: if Vic wasn't a serial sexual harasser and simply made that joke completely in a vacuum? No one would care. At all. In the slightest. By itself, devoid of context (now who's ignoring that?) it's a totally harmless and negligible bit of playful banter.

But within the context of Vic's long pattern of sexual harassment and moreover within the context of his harassing Monica Rial prior? That otherwise harmless joke takes on a TOTALLY different connotation entirely.

The leaked audio on the other hand? Just actors fucking around between takes. That's it. There's literally NO CONTEXT which would suddenly make that audio suddenly take on a more menacing air or malicious tone, shy maybe only of Schemmel somehow being revealed as a raging, virulently anti-gay homophobe (which he very well might be, I have no fucking clue nor do I particularly care at the moment, barring him committing some horrific anti-gay hate crime or something).
 

Classic Adamas

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I'm sorry but firing someone over unsubstantiated allegations is bullshit.
 

ahill1

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The Myst said:
I'm sorry but firing someone over unsubstantiated allegations is bullshit.

I just find it funny that some people will take the "I don't believe testimony" role not to condemn Vic, but will embrace far less testimonies that spawns some conspiracy theory, meaning to me they want to accept the testimony that shares their own belief and ideals. That's a double standard.
 

Captain Cadaver

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ahill1 said:
And to plenty of fans who DIDN'T request it. You conveniently left that key part out. And he didn't just "hug" them: he's reportedly grabbed and groped inappropriately/sexually as well. Among other things.
Yeah...would be great if you could provide some, you know, actual evidence of that.

Oh but I know: "We weren't there, we didn't see it happen, all we have is the word of like, dozens and dozens of fans from across more than a decade+, who come from all over the country, who all don't know one another, and have all of ZERO reason or motivation to lie... but none of us were physically present to see it, so WHO KNOWS? He said/she said!"
Indeed. Second-hand accounts mean nothing without hard evidence and more often than not lead to accusations being debunked, the Mari Iijima case being a prime example of such when her words were told by another source rather than her herself. It's also worth noting how hard those advocating on the KickVic bandwagon have backtracked on a lot of their claims when counter-evidence was brought to the table.

Wait... so you DON'T accept the word of like a dozen different unconnected people confirming something that was already an OPEN SECRET among convention staff and fandom for nearly 20 years (to the point people had known about it for well over a decade and a half)... but you're PERFECTLY WILLING to fully 100% accept up front a SINGLE claim from two people (one of them who's general level of... lets say "mental caliber" is HIGHLY suspect) that just suddenly popped up for the very first time super-recently out of the clear blue?

...ok.
Not 100%, but more so than those with a clear agenda behind their actions such as Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi, especially with how many backtracking has been made in regard to their claims to the point they can't be taken seriously.

Nadoly's word and motivations are indeed questionable, but (going back to the original point), people being so willing to defend the heads of the KickVic movement no matter how much of their evidence gets debunked whilst not even bothering to hear the words of Nadoly is plain hypocrisy.

Lol... you think that the recasting of a couple of voices in Kai was part of some elaborate backstage conspiracy to cover for Sabat sexually harassing Stephanie Nadolny? And I suppose Linda Young as well, since she was also recast?
It's case-by-case situation, though Nadoly's story does have less holes than those of Marchi or Rial when viewed through this lens. Again, the point is that those so adamant to Vic's guilt aren't able to hear out the side of the opposition when similar allegations arise against them.
Linda Young was getting old, so her recast is more explainable.

And that Vic's firing is purely because both Sabat and FUNimation as a whole had it in for the guy all this time all along because Vic's such a "straight-laced Christian" and Sabat and FUNimation as a whole are all a bunch of godless heathen atheist liberals who simply hate Vic for having more conservative beliefs?
Nice straw man, but no. Sabat and Vic's conflict here was apparent, but only the tip of the iceburg.

Or never mind the fact that if Vic was so seethingly hated personally by Sabat and by the company as a whole (from Fukanaga on down), they could have simply just FIRED the guy any time they liked ages and ages ago.
They couldn't though. There's such a thing as "Innocent until proven guilty". By that standard, Vic has still yet to be proven guilty with hard evidence and not just allegations that range from semi-plausible to a weak cover story.
Even supposing it is proven he was guilty, that doesn't change the fact that he was fired from his job when the evidence for it was laughably weak.

Again, the word of countless dozens of unconnected, unrelated young girls from across DECADES (to the point where much of fandom, including guys who are only VAGUELY aware, at best, of anything that goes on with any of the FUNi cast, had been hearing about this since eons and eons long, long ago, decades pre-#MeToo, pre-Redpills and whatnot) all coming forward with a similar pattern of harassment sets off your bullshit alarm... but ONE CLAIM that just suddenly sprang up out of nowhere like what, a week ago now? That's 1000% air-tight right off the bat? To the point that it instantly reads as "elaborate backstage, anti-Christian conspiracy plot"?

Serious, honest question: don't you just see how ridiculous that sounds?
No more ridiculous than this straw man you've created.

My point wasn't that the case against Sabat was an objective fact. My point was that there is a clear double-standard in terms of allegations. With only allegations to go off, Vic was fired from his job without the clause of "innocent until proven guilty" applying whilst being treat as guilty by those involved immediately, yet similar allegations against Sabat aren't treat to the same standard despite their equally flimsy nature.

Again, you have all these allegations and yet not a single example of recorded evidence of the groping or other sexual assaults lauded against him and almost all attempts to accuse Vic of these have ended up either coming up short or being debunked. Maybe the same will apply to Sabat but considering how those of the KickVic movement are so quick to defend Sabat whilst constantly being contradicted in their accusations against Vic, there is a clear cognitive dissonance within the two examples.

within the context of his harassing Monica Rial prior?
:cena

All of Monica's accusations of Vic harassing her have been debunked upon being looked into with scrutiny to the point her word can't be taken seriously.
For a decent compilation for the evidence behind that, just check out the channel YellowFlash2, who's covered the issue to death.
 

Captain Cadaver

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Just found this video:

[youtube]uung91sXqwo[/youtube]

The double-standards of #KickVic and the character assassination of him on the part of Funimation just pile up one after the other, don't they?
 

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If anyone is going to get in major trouble over the leaks, it's Schemmel. You can't say faggot in today's American society, not like you could 20 years ago. If he comes away with a reprimand I'll be shocked. The other voice actors made "inappropriate" comments, but they can't really be considered derogatory or insulting to a group of people.

Plus, the Chi-Chi bit got me all riled up for some good secret manga.
 

Classic Adamas

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ahill1 said:
The Myst said:
I'm sorry but firing someone over unsubstantiated allegations is bullshit.

I just find it funny that some people will take the "I don't believe testimony" role not to condemn Vic, but will embrace far less testimonies that spawns some conspiracy theory, meaning to me they want to accept the testimony that shares their own belief and ideals. That's a double standard.
ahill sexually assaulted me seven years ago in a 7-11.

Fire him, please.
 

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The Myst said:
Because English is the world's language. English speaking countries are more likely to have been exposed to Sean, and I doubt very few people (apart from niche anime fans and Japanese people) have been exposed to the original. I'm willing to bet most non-English viewers are more familiar with funi over the original too, which is why I think Sean is more synonymous with the character at large.

Dragon Ball Z crossed in to the mainstream.

Except with Super, where the dub took 2 years to catch up with the subs.
 

Classic Adamas

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Pocket-Gog~ said:
The Myst said:
Because English is the world's language. English speaking countries are more likely to have been exposed to Sean, and I doubt very few people (apart from niche anime fans and Japanese people) have been exposed to the original. I'm willing to bet most non-English viewers are more familiar with funi over the original too, which is why I think Sean is more synonymous with the character at large.

Dragon Ball Z crossed in to the mainstream.

Except with Super, where the dub took 2 years to catch up with the subs.
I doubt normies would seek out subs.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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[mention]ahill1[/mention] were you copy-pasting the arguments people made on Kanzenshuu so you could parrot CC’s points there?
 

ahill1

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GreatSaiyaman123 said:
@ahill1 were you copy-pasting the arguments people made on Kanzenshuu so you could parrot CC’s points there?

Yeah. I mentioned it in the ask CC's thread. I thought this little game would be funny as there's a heavy clash of ideals. Guys there were really infuriated with the views and it likely incurred the wrath of Vegetto Ex.
 

Pocket-Gog~

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The Myst said:
Pocket-Gog~ said:
The Myst said:
Because English is the world's language. English speaking countries are more likely to have been exposed to Sean, and I doubt very few people (apart from niche anime fans and Japanese people) have been exposed to the original. I'm willing to bet most non-English viewers are more familiar with funi over the original too, which is why I think Sean is more synonymous with the character at large.

Dragon Ball Z crossed in to the mainstream.

Except with Super, where the dub took 2 years to catch up with the subs.
I doubt normies would seek out subs.
Then you weren't around for it, DBS was incredibly popular with subs. Its the entire reason why the DB community as a large now prefers subs to dubs, purely because it took years for the dubs to actually come out.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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ahill1 said:
GreatSaiyaman123 said:
ahill1 were you copy-pasting the arguments people made on Kanzenshuu so you could parrot CC’s points there?

Yeah. I mentioned it in the ask CC's thread. I thought this little game would be funny as there's a heavy clash of ideals. Guys there were really infuriated with the views and it likely incurred the wrath of Vegetto Ex.

In this case, I believe CC must also be banned from Zeta.
 

Pyro

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It's a stark difference when you watch Vic's deposition and then everybody else talk about it. Just says a lot.
 
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