Future Trunks is closer to Piccolo than to Vegeta SSj

[kriss-]

A couple feats:

Spoiler

A couple statements:

Spoiler

Chapter: 354 (DBZ 160), P4.1
Context: after No.17 knocks out Trunks
Kuririn: “O-one hit..! And he was a Super Saiyan…!”

Chapter: 352 (DBZ 158), P14.6
Context: after Trunks, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, and Kuririn arrive
Vegeta: “What an absolutely annoying bunch…Do you really think this is an opponent you guys would be any use against?”

As you can see, Trunks were knocked out in two simple hits, which is essentially what happened to Piccolo. However, the final attack that did Trunks in was when he crashed into his father -whom was capable of getting back up and continued fighting, despite suffering a broken arm and being battle worn.

The difference between Future Trunks and Vegeta is incredibly large, far more than people think. Trunks is likely much closer to Piccolo in terms of battle power than he is to Vegeta.

 

[ahill1]

Trunks was hit first by #17, who is stronger than #18. Besides, it was a hit from behind and we saw Goku get knocked unconscious in a similar fashion by Majin Vegeta. Even Piccolo was down for a moment.

Trunks was hit in the gut by Vegeta's backside area, I'd rather not be Trunks in that situation.

Later, Tenshinhan grouped all the three SSJs together, stating they are not much different from each other, probably because the two SSJs in front of him (Vegeta and Trunks) felt that way.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

It could be like Zarbon and Dodoria compare to Vegeta.

 

[Tapion]

17 explicitly stated that the teamwork of Trunks, Piccolo and Vegeta would take out 18. An arrogant statement by Vegeta won't change that.

 

[kriss-]

Trunks was hit first by #17, who is stronger than #18. Besides, it was a hit from behind and we saw Goku get knocked unconscious in a similar fashion by Majin Vegeta. Even Piccolo was down for a moment.

Trunks was hit in the gut by Vegeta's backside area, I'd rather not be Trunks in that situation.

Later, Tenshinhan grouped all the three SSJs together, stating they are not much different from each other, probably because the two SSJs in front of him (Vegeta and Trunks) felt that way.

Trunks was hit first by #17, who is stronger than #18. Besides, it was a hit from behind and we saw Goku get knocked unconscious in a similar fashion by Majin Vegeta. Even Piccolo was down for a moment.

Tienshinhan was choked out by #17, whose stronger than #18, we cannot use this type of logic to determine anything. Because Tienshinhans head did not explode, it's quite clear he held back enough so he wouldn't maim the Z-Fighters.

Trunks was hit in the gut by Vegeta's backside area, I'd rather not be Trunks in that situation.

With all due respect, this just seems like a reach. Vegeta was fighting Android 18 for a prolonged period of time, he had his arm broken and suffered as much battle damage as Trunks. But he was capable of getting back up whereas Trunks was immediately knocked in a fashion similar to Piccolo.

Later, Tenshinhan grouped all the three SSJs together, stating they are not much different from each other, probably because the two SSJs in front of him (Vegeta and Trunks) felt that way.

Supporting feats and statements from stronger and more relevant characters tell us completely differently.

The humans are clearly nowhere within the same league as the Super Saiyans, hence why they speak in broad terms whenever they reference one. Such as Krillen 'A Super Saiyan knocked out in one hit?', rather than 'Super Saiyan Trunks was knocked out in one hit?'. Grouping them together is the best way for them to comprehend that level of power because they don't fully understand it.

If we applied your logic into the Manga, than when Trunks says that himself, Piccolo and Tienshinhan were all incapable of defeating the Androids, this would mean that Tienshinhan was grouped together with them in the same tier of power. This surely isn't the case.

This type of logic causes contradictions, not answers.

 

[Tapion]

Interesting how you need a statement from "more relevant characters" this time but you still disregard the fact that Super Buu kept his power boost just because Krillin, who is far from relevant since Freeza Arc, didn't say that he did.

Vegeta's word doesn't need to be higher than Tenshinhan in this point, because he is shown to be an arrogant bastard and too confident on his own power in this point, because he awakened Super Saiyan. He's even refusing to believe that the Androids are stronger than him at first. While Tenshinhan never got a ki sensing wrong in the series and his statement clearly spells that the author wanted to make clear that Trunks, Goku and Vegeta were in the same league.

Feats that can be explained aren't taking place here.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I think him standing in battle the longest is a testament to his durability and tenaciousness, not necessarily his strength. Also, that comment about the others being useless seemed to be typical Vegeta arrogance.

 

[Six Trails]

Trunks was geouped together with Vegeta by two people while Piccolo is never grouped with any of the Super Saiyans.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Both Krillin and Piccolo thought Super Saiyan Trunks getting knocked down was a big deal, so he's most definitely not closer to Piccolo.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Because Trunks is a SSJ tier.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Because Trunks is a SSJ tier.

Piccolo is also in a SSj-Tier.

 

[Tapion]

Trunks was geouped together with Vegeta by two people while Piccolo is never grouped with any of the Super Saiyans.

Tenshinhan actually groups Piccolo with Vegeta in one stance, saying that both of them possessed incredible power or so.

Also, Piccolo never thought that Trunks being knocked out was that big deal. He only said that to make clear to Krillin that he would be useless and one-shot bait imo.

 

[Papasmurf]

To be precise he said Piccolo and Vegeta both got huge power-ups rather than grouping them in the same power range

 

[Tapion]

To be precise he said Piccolo and Vegeta both got huge power-ups rather than grouping them in the same power range

Yes, he says the following

Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.5
Tenshinhan: “I don’t like that Piccolo and Vegeta have powered up so extraordinarily, but for now at least it’s a relief…”

But i think that if the gap was so big as some people believe, then Tien should've said that Vegeta's power-up was considerably bigger than Piccolo's, but this is only my opinion ofc

 

[ahill1]

I have

Piccolo - 75
Trunks - 88
Goku - 95
Vegeta - 100

Seems pretty damn good.

 

[kriss-]

This makes more sense with what we're told, visually and vocally.

Android 17 - 325,000,000
Android 18 - 300,000,000

Vegeta - 250,000,000
Goku - 240,000,000

Trunks - 200,000,000
Piccolo - 180,000,000

 

[Pyro]

It's made clear that Vegeta and Goku are the two top dogs, and Piccolo has become super powerful as well but is not up to par with them. Trunks is more of a mystery regarding his standing, but he does get lumped in with his father and Goku on more than one occasion, and Piccolo appeared to hold Trunks as somewhat of a benchmark for the android battle, so I tend to have him leaning on the Super Saiyan side rather than the Namekian side, but he could really fit just fine smack dab in between them and it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Tapion]

In more than one occasion, Trunks is lumped together with Goku & Vegeta. Just because Vegeta is overall more durable and tougher than Trunks, that doesn't mean that he is much stronger. Durability is not directly correlated to power(i.e Vegeta being capable of enduring gigantic ammounts of damage, even with a relatively low power level compared to the attacks)

If i were to put it in numbers, i would say that it was something like

Vegeta 480
Goku 470
Trunks 450
Piccolo 430

 

[ahill1]

Yea, the fight is up for interpretation. There're statements putting the three SSJs in the same range of power. They are fairly close to each other.

 

[kriss-]

The fight isn't really up for interpretation. Trunks got absolutely demolished during his brief battle with the Androids, in essentially the same manner as Piccolo -whereas Vegeta, and the implied battle power of Goku, would at least be capable of providing some resistance.

If we went by the logic that being grouped together in a statements means they are in the same realm of power, than Tienshinhan is around Trunks and Piccolo's battle power:

Trunks: “You’ve got to be kidding. Father, myself, Piccolo, and Tenshinhan all went at them and were helpless.”

But we know that's impossible...

The statements regarding the three Super Saiyans is more-or-less a reference to that specific type of power as opposed to a certain level.

For example:

Chapter: 354 (DBZ 160), P4.1
Context: after No.17 knocks out Trunks
Kuririn: “O-one hit..! And he was a Super Saiyan…!”

Krillen is referencing his Super Saiyan transformation as opposed to a degree of power that is say... on par with Goku.

When you have a few statements that suggest one thing, but actual feats that display something else entirely, the feats hold more weight; especially when the characters making such statements aren't as credible as someone already at that threshold of power.

Chapter: 352 (DBZ 158), P14.6
Context: after Trunks, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, and Kuririn arrive
Vegeta: “What an absolutely annoying bunch…Do you really think this is an opponent you guys would be any use against?”

Realistically, Trunks is nowhere near Goku or Vegeta's battle power. He was astounded that Vegeta was capable of fighting with an Android stronger than the one in his timeline. Summarily, Vegeta is capable of fighting a battle power stronger than he expected, thus increasing the gap between the two.