Gen 4 vs Gen 5
- Thread starter SSJ2
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There are many different aspects to consider when determining which is better.
In terms of plot and character, Gen 5 is far above Gen 4. Black/White's plot brings up the elephant in the room of the ethics behind Pokemon battle, focuses on the theme of truth vs ideals, has the gym leaders get involved in stopping the evil team for once and breaks the typical formula by having the champion be defeated before you get to him with the evil team actually proving themselves to be a true threat to the region. The rivals also develop from their experiences and follow their own path after being constantly defeated by the player, something fully realised in B2/W2 with Cheren becoming a gym leader and Bianca becoming a researcher. N is also by far the most interesting antagonist in the franchise, having a sympathetic reason for his goals and being influenced by his father grooming him for greatness from childhood. Some of the theme exploration on the ethics is made messy by Team Plasma revealing towards the end of B/W that they were lying in their goals and Ghetsis' true motivations are no different than the other evil team leaders, but the ambitious nature it otherwise took can't be ignored. B2/W2 are a big step down in quality for its story, but still had some fair positives in handling its characters and showing some actual change within the region much as Gen 2 did for Kanto. By comparison, Gen 4's story is the same template as Gen 3, only being better due to Cyrus' goals having more rationale than Archie/Maxie's, and most of the characters outside of Cynthia are far from stand-outs.
As far as gameplay goes, each have their strengths and weaknesses. Gen 4 had some neat features such as being able to access certain Pokemon via having a specific gameboy cartridge in the DS (eg. you could find an Arbok in the Great Marsh post-game if having Fire Red inserted), transferring Pokemon from the prior generation was far less of a hassle than Gen 5 requiring two DS and things such as the VS. Seeker being available made grinding for both exp and money very simple. The sprites also look a fair bit smoother in Gen 4. On the other hand, Gen 5 had a very solid improvement in TMs being capable of being handed out indefinitely rather than being a one time use, the selection of HMs was a lot better (eg. no need to make
moves like Rock Smash and Defog essential for navigation) and additional features such as the Pokemon World Tournament in B2/W2 were every bit as much as expansive and challenging as the Battle Frontier in Platinum. Also, the draining of HP bars is nowhere near as slow in Gen 5.
Including the post-game, both have their advantages. Gen 4 has more legendaries to potentially catch than Black/White as well as some better means of grinding for exp, though B2/W2 absolutely dominated in the legendary category with how many legendaries from prior games you could catch post-game. Both of the Gen 5 duos also had a higher level cap for the wild Pokemon iirc, making organising an effective post-game team very viable without grinding a new member up for ages.
As for the Pokemon themselves, that's one purely down to personal opinion. Gen 4 introduced a lot of Pokemon that are still staples in both popularity and competitive usage such as Lucario, Garchomp, etc. as well as brought new life into older Pokemon by adding a whole lot of new evolutions. Gen 5 not having any of the old Pokemon until post-game in Black/White allowed the new Pokemon to stand out better though as a player going into the games for the first time would have full incentive to discover what these new Pokemon are capable of. There is the design element often levied against Gen 5, but a lot of the arguments of Gen 5's designs being bad tend to come purely from opinion rather than analysing the components of the design (not to mention a lot of the typical complaints of "hurr durr gears and ice cream" don't have much of a leg to stand on unless also criticising a lot of designs in prior gens). Both Gens have their good and bad designs, though I'd say I find Gen 4's best and most intricate designs a bit more impressive. Gen 4 probably holds a slight edge from a design perspective, whereas Gen 5 wins in terms of utility.
When it comes to how the second instalment improved on the first games of each gen, Platinum did a far better job than B2/W2. This is partially due to the noticeable flaws within Diamond and Pearl that it fixed such as Infernape and Rapidash being the only fire types available, most of the evolutions of past Pokemon such as Electivire and Magmortar not being available until the post game, etc. though B2/W2 did have its problems to place it definitely below Platinum such as Team Plasma being reduced to Team Rocket clones, the plot in general being far more of a return to formula and a lot of the more interesting characters from Black/White having their presence reduced.
I guess another aspect to bring up would be the music, a minor element but a notable strong point of the franchise nonetheless. Gen 5 definitely holds the advantage when it comes to location ost with it having 3 of, if not the, most catchy osts in the franchise in Driftveil City, Accumula Town and Nimbasa City. When it comes to battle ost, it can go either way. Gen 5 had a more unique rival and evil team theme as well as perhaps a better legendary encounter theme, though Cynthia's theme definitely overshadows any of Gen 5's battle osts (though as she can be challenged in Gen 5, it's hard for her to shift the scales too much). Gen 5 also had an additional sense of urgency added to how the music would change to a fast and tense track whenever HP went red as well as a triumphant theme that played when a gym leader was forced to resort to their last Pokemon, allowing for a change to be noted in the flow of battle. I'd say Gen 5 takes the win in music more often than not.
All that said, whilst I have more nostalgia for Gen 4, there's little denying that Gen 5 is better overall in the majority of categories when breaking each one down.
In terms of plot and character, Gen 5 is far above Gen 4. Black/White's plot brings up the elephant in the room of the ethics behind Pokemon battle, focuses on the theme of truth vs ideals, has the gym leaders get involved in stopping the evil team for once and breaks the typical formula by having the champion be defeated before you get to him with the evil team actually proving themselves to be a true threat to the region. The rivals also develop from their experiences and follow their own path after being constantly defeated by the player, something fully realised in B2/W2 with Cheren becoming a gym leader and Bianca becoming a researcher. N is also by far the most interesting antagonist in the franchise, having a sympathetic reason for his goals and being influenced by his father grooming him for greatness from childhood. Some of the theme exploration on the ethics is made messy by Team Plasma revealing towards the end of B/W that they were lying in their goals and Ghetsis' true motivations are no different than the other evil team leaders, but the ambitious nature it otherwise took can't be ignored. B2/W2 are a big step down in quality for its story, but still had some fair positives in handling its characters and showing some actual change within the region much as Gen 2 did for Kanto. By comparison, Gen 4's story is the same template as Gen 3, only being better due to Cyrus' goals having more rationale than Archie/Maxie's, and most of the characters outside of Cynthia are far from stand-outs.
As far as gameplay goes, each have their strengths and weaknesses. Gen 4 had some neat features such as being able to access certain Pokemon via having a specific gameboy cartridge in the DS (eg. you could find an Arbok in the Great Marsh post-game if having Fire Red inserted), transferring Pokemon from the prior generation was far less of a hassle than Gen 5 requiring two DS and things such as the VS. Seeker being available made grinding for both exp and money very simple. The sprites also look a fair bit smoother in Gen 4. On the other hand, Gen 5 had a very solid improvement in TMs being capable of being handed out indefinitely rather than being a one time use, the selection of HMs was a lot better (eg. no need to make
moves like Rock Smash and Defog essential for navigation) and additional features such as the Pokemon World Tournament in B2/W2 were every bit as much as expansive and challenging as the Battle Frontier in Platinum. Also, the draining of HP bars is nowhere near as slow in Gen 5.Including the post-game, both have their advantages. Gen 4 has more legendaries to potentially catch than Black/White as well as some better means of grinding for exp, though B2/W2 absolutely dominated in the legendary category with how many legendaries from prior games you could catch post-game. Both of the Gen 5 duos also had a higher level cap for the wild Pokemon iirc, making organising an effective post-game team very viable without grinding a new member up for ages.
As for the Pokemon themselves, that's one purely down to personal opinion. Gen 4 introduced a lot of Pokemon that are still staples in both popularity and competitive usage such as Lucario, Garchomp, etc. as well as brought new life into older Pokemon by adding a whole lot of new evolutions. Gen 5 not having any of the old Pokemon until post-game in Black/White allowed the new Pokemon to stand out better though as a player going into the games for the first time would have full incentive to discover what these new Pokemon are capable of. There is the design element often levied against Gen 5, but a lot of the arguments of Gen 5's designs being bad tend to come purely from opinion rather than analysing the components of the design (not to mention a lot of the typical complaints of "hurr durr gears and ice cream" don't have much of a leg to stand on unless also criticising a lot of designs in prior gens). Both Gens have their good and bad designs, though I'd say I find Gen 4's best and most intricate designs a bit more impressive. Gen 4 probably holds a slight edge from a design perspective, whereas Gen 5 wins in terms of utility.
When it comes to how the second instalment improved on the first games of each gen, Platinum did a far better job than B2/W2. This is partially due to the noticeable flaws within Diamond and Pearl that it fixed such as Infernape and Rapidash being the only fire types available, most of the evolutions of past Pokemon such as Electivire and Magmortar not being available until the post game, etc. though B2/W2 did have its problems to place it definitely below Platinum such as Team Plasma being reduced to Team Rocket clones, the plot in general being far more of a return to formula and a lot of the more interesting characters from Black/White having their presence reduced.
I guess another aspect to bring up would be the music, a minor element but a notable strong point of the franchise nonetheless. Gen 5 definitely holds the advantage when it comes to location ost with it having 3 of, if not the, most catchy osts in the franchise in Driftveil City, Accumula Town and Nimbasa City. When it comes to battle ost, it can go either way. Gen 5 had a more unique rival and evil team theme as well as perhaps a better legendary encounter theme, though Cynthia's theme definitely overshadows any of Gen 5's battle osts (though as she can be challenged in Gen 5, it's hard for her to shift the scales too much). Gen 5 also had an additional sense of urgency added to how the music would change to a fast and tense track whenever HP went red as well as a triumphant theme that played when a gym leader was forced to resort to their last Pokemon, allowing for a change to be noted in the flow of battle. I'd say Gen 5 takes the win in music more often than not.
All that said, whilst I have more nostalgia for Gen 4, there's little denying that Gen 5 is better overall in the majority of categories when breaking each one down.
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Unova is a circle which is boring but Sinnoh features slow pacing and frequent backtracking and godawful HM placement which is just frustrating
Sinnoh has better dungeons though (e.g. climbing Mt Coronet) so that evens it out a little
Sinnoh has better dungeons though (e.g. climbing Mt Coronet) so that evens it out a little
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[mention]SuperSaiyan2[/mention] With the regions, there's a lot of components to compare.
In terms of lore, Sinnoh probably takes it due to the connections between the creation trio, the lake guardians and Arceus for both the region's creation myth and for Pokemon's cosmology as a whole. Unova has some depth in its lore about the legendary dragon that split into the Tao trio and the conflict between the two brothers that's more relevant to the plot and themes of the game than Sinnoh's lore, but beyond Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem, that's about as far as the lore extends. It doesn't have relevance to the Pokemon world on a wider scale and the other legendaries don't tie into Unova's lore that highly beyond their gimmicks.
As far as the geography of the region, I'd say Sinnoh takes it with far more interesting and detailed landmarks such as Mt. Coronet and the more snowy areas of its northern locations. However, Unova has it beat in terms of climate with the feature of seasons changing each month and how that can affect both Pokemon encounters (eg. ice types being easier to find in winter) or traversing the region as a whole (some pieces of water being frozen over during winter).
As a whole, I'd say Sinnoh takes a slight edge over Unova.
Also, for my Gen 4 points, I'm obviously excluding HG/SS since remakes tend to be more of an anomaly in generation comparisons (and including them would bring pretty much every category as a landslide victory for Gen 4 except maybe story and music).
In terms of lore, Sinnoh probably takes it due to the connections between the creation trio, the lake guardians and Arceus for both the region's creation myth and for Pokemon's cosmology as a whole. Unova has some depth in its lore about the legendary dragon that split into the Tao trio and the conflict between the two brothers that's more relevant to the plot and themes of the game than Sinnoh's lore, but beyond Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem, that's about as far as the lore extends. It doesn't have relevance to the Pokemon world on a wider scale and the other legendaries don't tie into Unova's lore that highly beyond their gimmicks.
As far as the geography of the region, I'd say Sinnoh takes it with far more interesting and detailed landmarks such as Mt. Coronet and the more snowy areas of its northern locations. However, Unova has it beat in terms of climate with the feature of seasons changing each month and how that can affect both Pokemon encounters (eg. ice types being easier to find in winter) or traversing the region as a whole (some pieces of water being frozen over during winter).
As a whole, I'd say Sinnoh takes a slight edge over Unova.
Also, for my Gen 4 points, I'm obviously excluding HG/SS since remakes tend to be more of an anomaly in generation comparisons (and including them would bring pretty much every category as a landslide victory for Gen 4 except maybe story and music).
