Gero + Z Senshi > SSjin Vegeta experiment

[GSM123]

Goku: 240
~ SSjin: 1,200
~ SSjin (Sick): 900
~ SSjin (Post Kamehameha): 600

Vegeta: 250
~ SSjin: 1,250
~ Post 19: 750
~ Post BBA: 600

Trunks: 225
~ SSjin: 1,125

Piccolo: 200
~ Full Power: 1,000

Gohan: 180
Kuririn: 150
Tenshinhan: 120
Yamcha: 100

Android 19: 600
~ Post Goku's beatdown: 400
~ Post Kamehameha: 700
~ Post Vegeta's beatdown: 100
~ Final absorbtion: 600

Android 20: 650
~ Post Yamcha: 750
~ Post Vegeta's blast: 775
~ Hypothetical post Z Senshi: 1,425
~ Post Suppressed Piccolo: 825

By the 1st Rosat trip, the SSjin multipliers gets buffed to 10x, and by the Cell Games everyone is back at 50x. What'cha think?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

No need for SSJ to be back at 50x.

 

[Jeff Styles]

Goku: 240
~ SSjin: 1,200
~ SSjin (Sick): 900
~ SSjin (Post Kamehameha): 600

Vegeta: 250
~ SSjin: 1,250
~ Post 19: 750
~ Post BBA: 600

Trunks: 225
~ SSjin: 1,125

Piccolo: 200
~ Full Power: 1,000

Gohan: 180
Kuririn: 150
Tenshinhan: 120
Yamcha: 100

Android 19: 600
~ Post Goku's beatdown: 400
~ Post Kamehameha: 600
~ Post Vegeta's beatdown: 100
~ Final absorbtion: 600

Android 20: 650
~ Post Yamcha: 750
~ Post Vegeta's blast: 775
~ Hypothetical post Z Senshi: 1,425
~ Post Suppressed Piccolo: 825

By the 1st Rosat trip, the SSjin multipliers gets buffed to 10x, and by the Cell Games everyone is back at 50x. What'cha think?

I think your math is a little off.

200 (Piccolo) + 180 (Gohan) = 380 + 150 (Kuririn) = 530 + 120 (Tenshinhan) = 650 + 100 (Yamcha) = 750

750 + 775 (Android 20) = 1,525

 

[GSM123]

No need for SSJ to be back at 50x.

Base Saiyans can't be worlds above 18 as Trunks still needs to dodge 18's blast

But if i'm on the mood for Base Saiyans > Piccolo, it can still 5x.

I think your math is a little off.

200 (Piccolo) + 180 (Gohan) = 380 + 150 (Kuririn) = 530 + 120 (Tenshinhan) = 650 + 100 (Yamcha) = 750

750 + 775 (Android 20) = 1,525

Er... Yamcha left to take Goku home, so Gero is only refering to Piccolo + Gohan + Tenshinhan + :Krillin

 

[Jeff Styles]

No need for SSJ to be back at 50x.

Base Saiyans can't be worlds above 18 as Trunks still needs to dodge 18's blast

But if i'm on the mood for Base Saiyans > Piccolo, it can still 5x.

I think your math is a little off.

200 (Piccolo) + 180 (Gohan) = 380 + 150 (Kuririn) = 530 + 120 (Tenshinhan) = 650 + 100 (Yamcha) = 750

750 + 775 (Android 20) = 1,525

Er... Yamcha left to take Goku home, so Gero is only refering to Piccolo + Gohan + Tenshinhan + :Krillin

Oh... oh!!! Crap basket. I forgot about Yamcha leaving.

 

[Jeff Styles]

No need for SSJ to be back at 50x.

Base Saiyans can't be worlds above 18 as Trunks still needs to dodge 18's blast

But if i'm on the mood for Base Saiyans > Piccolo, it can still 5x.

I think your math is a little off.

200 (Piccolo) + 180 (Gohan) = 380 + 150 (Kuririn) = 530 + 120 (Tenshinhan) = 650 + 100 (Yamcha) = 750

750 + 775 (Android 20) = 1,525

Er... Yamcha left to take Goku home, so Gero is only refering to Piccolo + Gohan + Tenshinhan + :Krillin

Oh... oh!!! Crap basket. I forgot about Yamcha leaving.

 

[ahill1]

Shouldn't Gero (post Piccolo's absorption) be above 825?

Also, if Gero absorbed suppressed Piccolo again he'd be at 1,025... isn't that a little far off from ssj Vegeta?

 

[GSM123]

Shouldn't Gero (post Piccolo's absorption) be above 825?

I don't think Gero had time to absorb much energy before Gohan knocked him. And this is the biggest Gero can reach, otherwhise he'd be to close to Piccolo.

Also, if Gero absorbed suppressed Piccolo again he'd be at 1,025... isn't that a little far off from ssj Vegeta?

Damn, Gero is an ass. In Viz he never completed the sentence, so i wasn't aware of this. I'm gonna bet he was a little of on the estimatives, considering he was wrong about 19 > Sick Goku and was oblivius of Piccolo's power up. But there is no way he's dumb to a point he thinks absorbing a bunch of guys weaker than Base Vegeta will help him defeat SSJ Vegeta.

 

[SSJ2]

Gero is too white.

 

[GSM123]

And 19 is too damn thin

 

[ahill1]

I don't think Gero had time to absorb much energy before Gohan knocked him. And this is the biggest Gero can reach, otherwhise he'd be to close to Piccolo.

Piccolo seemed pretty strained... shouldn't him have absorbed most of his suppressed powers?

Damn, Gero is an ass. In Viz he never completed the sentence, so i wasn't aware of this. I'm gonna bet he was a little of on the estimatives, considering he was wrong about 19 > Sick Goku and was oblivius of Piccolo's power up. But there is no way he's dumb to a point he thinks absorbing a bunch of guys weaker than Base Vegeta will help him defeat SSJ Vegeta.

Sure, not questioning it... but I'd have pushed Gero (post 2 suppressed Piccolos) to at least ~90% of Vegeta SSJ, if I wished to make that statement work as well.

Tenshinhan 25,000,000
Kuririn 35,000,000
Gohan 45,000,000
Supp Picc 54,000,000
Base Vegeta 68,000,000
Dr.Gero (pre) 180,000,000
Dr. Gero (post Yamcha) 195,000,000
Dr. Gero (post blast) 200,000,000
Dr. Gero (post Piccolo) 240,000,000
Piccolo 270,000,000
Vegeta SSJ 340,000,000


Dr. Gero (post suppressed Picc again) ~300,000,000
Dr. Gero (post Gohan, Kuririn and Ten) 345,000,000


Meh... I also have Piccolo having 14,000,000 of his suppressed power left

It's pretty hard to work with "2 suppressed Piccolos ~ ssj Vegeta" and people can use this to dismiss Gero + Gohan and earthlings > ssj Vegeta.

 

[GSM123]

Piccolo seemed pretty strained... shouldn't him have absorbed most of his suppressed powers?

He doesn't seem that bad for me

Spoiler

Sure, not questioning it... but I'd have pushed Gero (post 2 suppressed Piccolos) to at least ~90% of Vegeta SSJ, if I wished to make that statement work as well.

Tenshinhan 25,000,000
Kuririn 35,000,000
Gohan 45,000,000
Supp Picc 54,000,000
Base Vegeta 68,000,000
Dr.Gero (pre) 180,000,000
Dr. Gero (post Yamcha) 195,000,000
Dr. Gero (post blast) 200,000,000
Dr. Gero (post Piccolo) 240,000,000
Piccolo 270,000,000
Vegeta SSJ 340,000,000


Dr. Gero (post suppressed Picc again) ~300,000,000
Dr. Gero (post Gohan, Kuririn and Ten) 345,000,000


Meh... I also have Piccolo having 14,000,000 of his suppressed power left

It's pretty hard to work with "2 suppressed Piccolos ~ ssj Vegeta" and people can use this to dismiss Gero + Gohan and earthlings > ssj Vegeta.

I don't think Gero + 2 Piccolos > SSjin Vegeta being hard disproves Gero + Earthlings. Sure, Gero is an idiot, but he'd need to reach a new level of stupidity to think he can stand a chance absorbing 4 guys who are less than 2% of Vegeta. Maybe he's counting with SSjin's strain to help him, or is counting with being close enough to be able to overspeed and get Vegeta off guard to suck him

And isn't Gero 88% of Piccolo already pushing it? 88% is a Goku/Cell gap IMO. Oh, i think i'm seeing your point... 88% is close to a Vegeta/Zarbon gap as well right? Yeah, i can see Gero being a shittu fighter like Zarbon seemed to be. Damn, Vegeta's speed advantage over Zarbon looks a lot like Cell's over Goku. Anyway, 88% can work, but i think it's too close.

 

[ahill1]

I'd say 88% can work with Gero being shitty fighter and Piccolo being a master, though I'd justify Gero thinking he could beat Vegeta while being < him because he can suck his energy, so... I think it's kind of too convenient, no? I mean, Gero can't do shit to Piccolo because he is a shitty fighter but can manage something against Vegeta because he possess prowess like an android...


I agree that Gero would have to be pretty stupid to think he'd be able to overcome Vegeta with warriors below 2% of his SSJ power... but can Gero even read a SSJ's power accurately? I mean, he thought sick Goku wasn't in so much of a different level that #19 couldn't defeat him, and thought the same when Vegeta turned into a SSJ, both of whom didn't seem to be suppressed. You could say Gero was counting on their absorptions abilities to overcome the power difference, but that's somewhat doubtful considering his surprise after Goku landed the first hit on #19, implying he didn't think Goku would show such dominance, the same with Vegeta.

Also, shouldn't the humans be suppressed when Gero made that statement? I mean, later on Kuririn powered up as a way to advise everyone he found #20, which implies he was simply not powered up before... so would Gero think the suppressed humans would also add on closing Vegeta's gap over him? Somewhat of a tricky situation if you ask me, unless they weren't suppressed there, but then Kuririn just randomly suppressed himself when seeking for Gero's laboratory.

Furthermore, whilst the term "add" was used as a way to describe them androids absorptions, it's also up for debate if it's simply an addition considering #19 didn't seem so much on a different level that a weakened sick Goku couldn't dodge one of his punches after the androids absorbed a fucking KMHMH from him... if it were by addition, shouldn't the KMHMH have put #19 on a completely different level compared to Goku? While it could have lacked amplification due to Goku's ilness, it shouldn't be < his sick power. Maybe the "add the energy to my own" was used more as a general term.

 

[GSM123]

I'd say 88% can work with Gero being shitty fighter and Piccolo being a master, though I'd justify Gero thinking he could beat Vegeta while being < him because he can suck his energy, so... I think it's kind of too convenient, no? I mean, Gero can't do shit to Piccolo because he is a shitty fighter but can manage something against Vegeta because he possess prowess like an android...

I agree that Gero would have to be pretty stupid to think he'd be able to overcome Vegeta with warriors below 2% of his SSJ power... but can Gero even read a SSJ's power accurately? I mean, he thought sick Goku wasn't in so much of a different level that #19 couldn't defeat him, and thought the same when Vegeta turned into a SSJ, both of whom didn't seem to be suppressed. You could say Gero was counting on their absorptions abilities to overcome the power difference, but that's somewhat doubtful considering his surprise after Goku landed the first hit on #19, implying he didn't think Goku would show such dominance, the same with Vegeta.

Also, shouldn't the humans be suppressed when Gero made that statement? I mean, later on Kuririn powered up as a way to advise everyone he found #20, which implies he was simply not powered up before... so would Gero think the suppressed humans would also add on closing Vegeta's gap over him? Somewhat of a tricky situation if you ask me, unless they weren't suppressed there, but then Kuririn just randomly suppressed himself when seeking for Gero's laboratory.

Furthermore, whilst the term "add" was used as a way to describe them androids absorptions, it's also up for debate if it's simply an addition considering #19 didn't seem so much on a different level that a weakened sick Goku couldn't dodge one of his punches after the androids absorbed a fucking KMHMH from him... if it were by addition, shouldn't the KMHMH have put #19 on a completely different level compared to Goku? While it could have lacked amplification due to Goku's ilness, it shouldn't be < his sick power. Maybe the "add the energy to my own" was used more as a general term.

On a Vegeta/Zarbon style? Yeah, i can see it. A skilled fighter like Goku was holding his own by a hair against Cell, let alone a old scientist like Gero having any chance against someone like Piccolo.

I can see your point. Maybe Gero's scouter has a limit and because Goku and Vegeta outstriped it the number showed was the max he could measure? Still don't buy it, though.

I actually thought Kuririn was more like showing his ki, like how Vegeta and Nappa were powering up besides not being able to change their power levels. Considering Gero was sensing via his own scouter, he should be able to see the humans' power IMO, but not Piccolo's considering he was really suppressed.

19 took a pretty bad beatdown before absorbing the Kamehameha, and considering how Goku was running out of energy due to ilness + SSjin strain i can totally see the Kamehameha being lower than his sick power.

 

[ahill1]

On a Vegeta/Zarbon style? Yeah, i can see it. A skilled fighter like Goku was holding his own by a hair against Cell, let alone a old scientist like Gero having any chance against someone like Piccolo.

Yeah, but if I were to buy Gero's estimations I'd have to use his androids abilities as a way to justify him being able to beat Vegeta despite being < him by almost the same amount he was < Piccolo... so it kind of sounds like I'm using Gero's abilities when convenient lol.

I can see your point. Maybe Gero's scouter has a limit and because Goku and Vegeta outstriped it the number showed was the max he could measure? Still don't buy it, though.

Sure. I think it makes sense, unless Goku SSJ sick was initially suppressed and so was Vegeta upon turning into one

I actually thought Kuririn was more like showing his ki, like how Vegeta and Nappa were powering up besides not being able to change their power levels. Considering Gero was sensing via his own scouter, he should be able to see the humans' power IMO, but not Piccolo's considering he was really suppressed.

That's possible, good point.

19 took a pretty bad beatdown before absorbing the Kamehameha, and considering how Goku was running out of energy due to ilness + SSjin strain i can totally see the Kamehameha being lower than his sick power.

Dunno... doesn't it sound weird for him to resort to the KMHMH is it were < his power? Also, Piccolo even said for Goku not to use the KMHMH again, which was clearly due to #19's absorption ability, without making note of it being lower than even Goku's power.

 

[GSM123]

Yeah, but if I were to buy Gero's estimations I'd have to use his androids abilities as a way to justify him being able to beat Vegeta despite being < him by almost the same amount he was < Piccolo... so it kind of sounds like I'm using Gero's abilities when convenient lol.

Yeah, you would need to have Gero >> Vegeta to make sense.

Sure. I think it makes sense, unless Goku SSJ sick was initially suppressed and so was Vegeta upon turning into one

I really don't think SSjins can suppress before mastering the form. They have to reason to be suppressed as well.

Dunno... doesn't it sound weird for him to resort to the KMHMH is it were < his power? Also, Piccolo even said for Goku not to use the KMHMH again, which was clearly due to #19's absorption ability, without making note of it being lower than even Goku's power.

Good point. Damn, if those absorbtions aren't additive i'm going to be spared of a lot of headache, lol. How do you actually think the absorbtions work then?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, you would need to have Gero >> Vegeta to make sense.

Which is a pain in the ass.

I really don't think SSjins can suppress before mastering the form. They have to reason to be suppressed as well.

Yeah, hence why I think Gero's radar might just not read a SSJ's power accurately.

Good point. Damn, if those absorbtions aren't additive i'm going to be spared of a lot of headache, lol. How do you actually think the absorbtions work then?

Maybe it's not addictive just to chi blasts, which I think could be argued. Either that, or Gero's absorptions work in a really strange way, kind of like a plot device. Dunno.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

Is it possible to have SSJ = 50x, Gero + Z nerds > SSJ Vegeta, and Gero + 2x suppressed Piccolo ~ SSJ Vegeta (where is that statement from?)

 

[GSM123]

Is it possible to have SSJ = 50x, Gero + Z nerds > SSJ Vegeta, and Gero + 2x suppressed Piccolo ~ SSJ Vegeta (where is that statement from?)

With a 50x multiplier, hell no. He'd be absorbing guys weaker than 2% of SSJ Vegeta. The statements are from here btw:

Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P14.7
Context: after seeing that Gohan, Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and Kuririn had followed him
No.20: “If I collect their energy and add it to my own, I’ll be able to win against Vegeta!”

Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P8.2
Context: Piccolo wants to fight No.20 without Vegeta's interference
No.20: “Don’t interfere, he says…Kukkukkuh…Alright, if I drain [Piccolo]'s energy again, then [I’ll win] against Vegeta…”

 

[ahill1]

Only if we assume the difference between Gero and Vegeta was like 5% haha.

Yamcha 10
Tenshinha 14
Kuririn 20
Gohan 25
Piccolo 34.6
Vegeta 35
~ssj 1,750
Dr. Gero 1,690
--+1 supp picc 1,720
--+2 supp picc 1,754.6
--post Z senshi 1,780
Piccolo 1,730




Or if earthlings and suppressed Piccolo >>> base Vegeta 2