Gohan @Dabra

[GokhanDBZfan]

Where is any of that suggested?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

According to Babidi.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Babidi never implied anything like that, only that they will be able to gather the required energy, because for them to go all out against their former ally is going to be hard.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Babidi never implied anything like that, only that they will be able to gather the required energy, because for them to go all out against their former ally is going to be hard.

a. Dabura thought Vegeta can do much better than he did as SSj.
b. Kaioshin thought SSj Goku and Vegeta shouldn't fight each other because it will revived Boo immediately that Gohan and Dabura couldn't do who are SSj2 tier in your opinion.
c. Goku and Vegeta doesn't think Dabura as a thread [who is SSj2 tier according to you] and yet Goku was surprised that Vegeta turned into SSj2 which begs a question that how would SSj Vegeta beat Dabura?

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

a.Not everything has to be related to power.Forcing them to fight and go all-out their former ally is logically going to be difficult for them, as is demonstrated with Gohan and Kuririn having trouble going all-out against Ginyu in Goku's body.
That's why Majin Vegeta was going to gather more energy from them than Dabra could.
b.Because they are about equal, unlike Gohan and Dabra.Kaioshin was cautious, he didn't even want Pui Pui to damage Base Vegeta.
c.He wasn't surprised by the transformation, but the power he was producing as Super Saiyan 2.
Vegeta even mentioned Goku and himself being stronger than Gohan in Babidi's ship.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

a.Not everything has to be related to power.Forcing them to fight and go all-out their former ally is logically going to be difficult for them, as is demonstrated with Gohan and Kuririn having trouble going all-out against Ginyu in Goku's body.
That's why Majin Vegeta was going to gather more energy from them than Dabra could.
b.Because they are about equal, unlike Gohan and Dabra.Kaioshin was cautious, he didn't even want Pui Pui to damage Base Vegeta.
c.He wasn't surprised by the transformation, but the power he was producing as Super Saiyan 2.
Vegeta even mentioned Goku and himself being stronger than Gohan in Babidi's ship.

a. The reason why they wanted them to fight each other was because they're strong enough to revive Boo something that Dabura who is SSj2 tier according to you couldn't get a job done while expecting SSj Vegeta can do it better than him.

b. Gohan and Dabura aren't far from each other either. Also we have Gohan who was expected for Goku and Vegeta to fight as SSj and knew that it will be enough to revive Boo which his SSj2 couldn't according to you.

c. You have no evidence about that since Goku was expected to beat SSj Vegeta as SS2 which is logically for Goku to be confident. Hell, Goku didn't even know that Vegeta got stronger by Babidi's magic until later.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

a.You have entirely ignored my argument.
Babidi could revive Buu easily, because it would be difficult for Goku and Gohan to fight their powered up former ally.
It has nothing to do with Vegeta's power in comparison to Dabra's.

b.Dabra couldn't fight Gohan in a direct combat and resorted to sneak attacks and magic immediately.He couldn't even damage a surprised Gohan with powerful blast.There is a considerable gap between them.
His Super Saiyan 2 couldn't revive Buu, because he hasn't taken any significant damage from Dabra.He doesn't even have a scratch on him after his fight with Dabra.

c.Neither do you.
Goku never ever mentions his surprise at the transformation Vegeta is using, he only focuses purely on the power Vegeta has.
Earlier Goku has expected Vegeta to surpass SSJ in the RoSaT within a year, in this situation, he had 7 years and even directly implied it when he mention himself and Goku being stronger than Gohan.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

a.You have entirely ignored my argument.
Babidi could revive Buu easily, because it would be difficult for Goku and Gohan to fight their powered up former ally.
It has nothing to do with Vegeta's power in comparison to Dabra's.

b.Dabra couldn't fight Gohan in a direct combat and resorted to sneak attacks and magic immediately.He couldn't even damage a surprised Gohan with powerful blast.There is a considerable gap between them.
His Super Saiyan 2 couldn't revive Buu, because he hasn't taken any significant damage from Dabra.He doesn't even have a scratch on him after his fight with Dabra.

c.Neither do you.
Goku never ever mentions his surprise at the transformation Vegeta is using, he only focuses purely on the power Vegeta has.
Earlier Goku has expected Vegeta to surpass SSJ in the RoSaT within a year, in this situation, he had 7 years and even directly implied it when he mention himself and Goku being stronger than Gohan.

a. What do you mean? Babidi cannot revive Boo ''easily'' as he wants too. Babidi and Dabura knew each other those Saiyajins can revive Boo better than Dabura himself which puts Vegeta above his league.

Spoiler

As you can see, Dabura expected SSj Vegeta can get the job done where he couldn't do it.

b. Still they can't get the job done where SSj Vegeta can do it.

c. Nope,

Spoiler

According to the context, Goku thought he can beat Vegeta quickly and it makes sense that since he didn't knew Vegeta has SSj2.

Also what it doesn't make sense is that Goku sensed Vegeta's SSj full power [whether u believe it or not] and still thought he can beat him even if Vegeta was equal to him?

 

[xmysticgohanx]

The only way to know the truth is to time travel back to when the chapters were releasing and asking Toriyama himself. I'd bet he kept on flip flopping between the two

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

DB Super confirmed that Dabura is just a merely SSj tier.

 

[ahill1]

He clearly transformed out of rage in that moment, since he was trained to have perfect control over FPSSJ.
Even later against Kibito, he doesn't have much of a problem staying in-between Base and SSJ, so for him to transformed into FPSSJ out of rage doesn't make sense, especially when Goku later tells Gohan to use his rage to beat Dabra.

Gohan didn't lose complete control at that moment. He got pissed off and later reverted back to base when Videl was knocked out of the ring, showing he was still in a position to control himself. He was just pissed off.

Like I said, it doesn't make a lick of sense for Gohan to be SSJ2 there.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

He transformed purely out of anger in that moment, yet he can control his Super Saiyan form well enough to stay in-between the transformation and Base form against Kibito.
If he can control that transformation well enough to pull that off, then he wouldn't have snapped into the form involuntarily, especially when he was the one to bring that rule up in the first place.

 

[ahill1]

Toriyama draw SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta without sparks and sharp auras

Only for a few moments, which doesn't equate to a full duration of a history.

The auras aren't essential to the form

Yes, they are. At least regarding the SSJ1 and SSJ2 stuff. Goku pretty much showed the difference between the two form to Babidi, Fat Boo, and the reader.

He transformed purely out of range at that moment

And like I said, he reverted back to base after seeing Videl get knocked out off the ring, which shows he still had control over himself, instead of allowing his rage to take him over.

Hell, he even showed a proper control over his SSJ2 form when he offered to turn one against Kibito, which means he doesn't have to be at SSJ2 in reason of being pissed off.