Gohan Retcon

[GreatSaiyaman123]

“Manage something” sounds like Vegeta understating it since they weren’t sure of Dabra’s power yet. I always liked to think Goku didn’t have a specific level in mind and Dabra could be anywhere between Initial and FP or Super PC. The “he’s stronger/tougher” than I thought jumbles things a bit though.

Vegeta saying Kibito was incompetent to get himself killed is funny.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Even then, Vegeta states that they would manage something. 'Tougher' can also mean stronger or more durable varying the situation.

Manage to one shot Dabura is probably what he means.

 

[FeatsofPower]

The “he’s stronger/tougher”

He's tougher, which doesn't jumble anything.

Dabura should be around Cell's level when he fought Goku, perhaps a bit stronger if you want to play it safe.

Which makes sense since Gohan thinks it's possible he can win the tournament, which doesn't make sense unless he's a fair bit stronger than Goku was at the CG.

 

[Goku9001]

Up to Dabra seeing SSJ Goku vs Yakon it looks like Dabra was supposed to be a big deal.

It does and it doesn't help that Goku claims that "Dabura is stronger than I thought" which relies on the information of Dabura's strength that we were given before. Dabura knew about Super Saiyan Goku's strength and asserted that he'd beat all of them (which is supported by the Daiz which lists Dabura's power as >3000 kiris). The only reason we are meant to question the Dabura ~ Cell comparison is that Gohan was drawn as a Super Saiyan.

I just think it's better to acknowledge that there could be an inconsistency here rather than putting words in the author's mouth. That's not very conducive to discussion.

 

[Goku9001]

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”

Then, why was this comment added not so much afterwards? I don't think that if the intention of Toriyama would be to completely discard Goku's comparison of Dabura vs Cell, would give a continuation to his prior statement.

I'm not disputing that. I don't think Toriyama thought about the ramifications of what he did by drawing Gohan as a Super Saiyan.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

“Manage something” sounds like Vegeta understating it since they weren’t sure of Dabra’s power yet. I always liked to think Goku didn’t have a specific level in mind and Dabra could be anywhere between Initial and FP or Super PC. The “he’s stronger/tougher” than I thought jumbles things a bit though.

Vegeta saying Kibito was incompetent to get himself killed is funny.

Actually, the only thing Vegeta is concerned about is the spit ability, since his strength he considers it as nothing special.

Manage to one shot Dabura is probably what he means.

Or simply manage to defeat him, Goku considered killing Dabura as an easy solution, also Gohan shows a challenge attitude towards Dabura (Dabura also asked him if he thinks that he could make a fool of him).

As far as the narrative is concerned, either of the three saiyans could defeat Dabura, until his magic abilities are shown (only in Gohan's case were a problem due to him being out of practice and being evenly matched with him).

 

[FeatsofPower]

Even then, Vegeta states that they would manage something. 'Tougher' can also mean stronger or more durable varying the situation.

The context points to tougher being more likely here.

 

[FeatsofPower]

As far as the narrative is concerned, either of the three saiyans could defeat Dabura, until his magic abilities are shown (only in Gohan's case were a problem due to him being out of practice and being evenly matched with him).

No, it's never suggested Gohan could easily defeat Dabura.

 

[ahill1]

He's tougher, which doesn't jumble anything.

Dabura should be around Cell's level when he fought Goku, perhaps a bit stronger if you want to play it safe.

Which makes sense since Gohan thinks it's possible he can win the tournament, which doesn't make sense unless he's a fair bit stronger than Goku was at the CG.

But then how would teen Gohan be way weaker than kid Gohan when teen is already > the Cell who fought Goku? Surely that Cell isn't leagues below CGs SSj1 Gohan.

 

[FeatsofPower]

But then how would teen Gohan be way weaker than kid Gohan when teen is already > the Cell who fought Goku? Surely that Cell isn't leagues below CGs SSj1 Gohan.

Teen Gohan ~ Dabura ~ Cell (vs Goku) > Goku CG

 

[ahill1]

Teen Gohan ~ Dabura ~ Cell (vs Goku) > Goku CG

Ok. And Kid Gohan is way stronger than teen Gohan... and ~ true speed Cell. Do you have Cell undergoung a big power up when rising the speed level?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

@FeatsofPower Gohan doesn't feel overwhelmed by fighting Dabura once he shows despite being the weakest saiyan between the 3 and Dabura infers that Gohan considers that he stated that he can make a fool out of him, of course, Gohan isn't going to easily win, unlike Vegeta or Goku. Goku's comparison on Dabura vs Cell was an estimation of his strength as far as what he has displayed and the idea that he wasn't using his full strength. Also, is unlikely for Dabura to use his full strength against someone as weak as Kibito.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Ok. And Kid Gohan is way stronger than teen Gohan... and ~ true speed Cell. Do you have Cell undergoung a big power up when rising the speed level?

Indeed. Freeza raised his level tremendously without powering up as well when he fought against Vegeta and Goku, before he ever showcased his 50% power. Maybe Cell's power works like that.

 

[FeatsofPower]

@FeatsofPower Gohan doesn't feel overwhelmed by fighting Dabura once he shows despite being the weakest saiyan between the 3 and Dabura infers that Gohan considers that he stated that he can make a fool out of him, of course, Gohan isn't going to easily win, unlike Vegeta or Goku. Goku's comparison on Dabura vs Cell was an estimation of his strength as far as what he has displayed and the idea that he wasn't using his full strength. Also, is unlikely for Dabura to use his full strength against someone as weak as Kibito.

Sure, Gohan never expected Dabura to be easy though. That's the point.