Gohan was a SSJ1 vs Dabura, in all likelihood

[ahill1]

"Oh but the story shows otherwise"

The story is ambiguous anyway. Vegeta affirms he can defeat Dabura and the thought of Vegeta having ssj2 only pops up in Goku's head when he actually demonstrates that. If Gohan and Dabura were fighting at a level of ssj2, then the idea would have already appeared to Goku.

Plus, Gohan states in amazement "Goku and Vegeta are fighting in a level beyond SSJ" and by the discriminatory way he said, implies he himself wasn't using it. Not only that, but he says THAT is the reason the damage is so big, a damage that couldn't be dealt with the level he clashed against Dabura.

"The hair shows SSJ2's traits"

Gohan had the hair when quickly transforming at the sight of Videl being beat up... and he was a SSJ1 there.

"Goku compared Dabura to Cell and only SSJ2s could beat up Cell"

Goku said Dabura was "probably about as strong as Cell". He was uncertain. Cell also showed a wide range of powers. He also said something like Dabura not showing his FP, but that if he had to estimate, Dabura would be probably about as strong as Cell... almost sounds like he was guessing the high ball of Cell's power, kinda saying "that's likely how strong he could end to be".

"Goku later said Dabura was way stronger than he thought"

That was after Dabura using his magic. And in some official translations, he used the word tougher. It's likely referring to his versatility in battle, being surprised by his techniques.

"Kaioshin said to Kibito he didn't get to see Gohan's amazing powers and his assistant saw his SSJ2"

Uhh, Kaioshin was surprised by base Vegeta beating Pui Pui and said to that that he didn't antecipate such strength... and that was to BASE Vegeta. Shin's perception of their strength, through shitty writing, clearly changed through the story. Plus, one can make a case about standing chi vs fighting chi. SSJ2 Gohan was standing around at the Tournament. SSJ Gohan was in active battle vs Dabura. And a distinction between both is made more than once in DB.


There's a counter for everything, guys!

 

[SSJ2]

Plus, Gohan states in amazement "Goku and Vegeta are fighting in a level beyond SSJ" and by the discriminatory way he said, implies he himself wasn't using it. Not only that, but he says THAT is the reason the damage is so big, a damage that couldn't be dealt with the level he clashed against Dabura.

This has always been the nail in the coffin for me. Gohan had an epiphany as to why Goku and Vegeta's damage output was so much greater. If he was a SSJ2 it wouldn't have come across as such a revelation.



Does this really look like a guy who is actively using SSJ2?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, the way he says sounds like he only came to realize it that time. Came as a realization. He knew Goku and Vegeta were stronger than him but the usage of SSJ2 only was clear to him after he saw the damage they accumulated. Kaioshin seems surprised in that pic too. I know that Gohan used it easily way chapters ago, but it just sounds like Toriyama decided to reserve it to Vegeta and Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

Toriyama clearly changed direction with Gohan. While he used it in the Budokai, he later made a point of going on about how he couldn't become enraged, and how his anger wasn't like it was 7 years ago. Anger was synonymous with SSJ2 in the Cell Games, and he simply lacked the conviction to pull it off in that moment. It does sound pretty ridiculous that he couldn't use it after the Budokai, but you can argue that he was enraged prior to fighting Kibito, enough so that he could hardly control himself while watching Videl get pumped by Spopobitch. Maybe that residual rage allowed him to tap into SSJ2.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah it's just strange that Kaioshin witnessed everything and never said or thought "do what you did at the Budokai, you can beat Dabura easily that way", and the way Vegeta and Goku acted makes one think Gohan was fighting at the best of his abilities. It's strange no one thinks Gohan showed minutes or an hour ago how he could deal with Dabura easily. It seems that act at the Budokai was erased from everyone. Goku even asked "have you been training hard, Gohan?"... he saw Gohan at the Budokai. So I just like to think everyone went to act like the transformation never happened. Yeah, they mentioned Gohan's display of power afterwards, but just not the transformation.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I agree and I think is a great analysis However, at least in Super "tough" is referred to general powerlevel term, when someone says "is tougher than you think" or "this guy is really tough" is referring to their level of strength, we also seen this with 17 being surprised of how strong Golden Freeza and tired Jiren were, or Goku telling Hit that U11 guys are really tough.

 

[ahill1]

I think it depends on the context. It's many times used for strength, but I think in this case it can be interpreted as something else.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah it's just strange that Kaioshin witnessed everything and never said or thought "do what you did at the Budokai, you can beat Dabura easily that way", and the way Vegeta and Goku acted makes one think Gohan was fighting at the best of his abilities. It's strange no one thinks Gohan showed minutes or an hour ago how he could deal with Dabura easily. It seems that act at the Budokai was erased from everyone. Goku even asked "have you been training hard, Gohan?"... he saw Gohan at the Budokai. So I just like to think everyone went to act like the transformation never happened. Yeah, they mentioned Gohan's display of power afterwards, but just not the transformation.

Out of universe I think it's a retcon. The art work says as much, as Toriyama clearly draws Gohan as a SSJ in the same chapter as Goku/Vegeta being SSJ2. It also lines up with Kaioshin forgetting about SSJ2 Gohan, and forgetting that Kibito was standing a meter away from him.

In universe, the same explanation can kind of apply. Kaioshin forgot about the details of the Budokai. It's like the task at hand completely clouded his memory/judgement, so he wasn't considering Gohan's power level. It's also clear that Kaioshin didn't understand the levels of Super Saiyan, as he referred to SSJ2 Gohan as "Super Saiyan", and Gohan was the one that explained to him that two combatants at SSJ2 would produce more damage. Kaioshin was simply clueless at the time.

Vegeta and Goku didn't quite act that way. Vegeta said that Gohan shouldn't be having that much trouble, and Goku later gave Gohan the speech about getting angry, making it clear that he wasn't anywhere near close to giving it his best. But yeah, it did seem like the Budokai fight was erased as soon as Dabura turned up.

 

[ahill1]

Well, Vegeta was angry with Gohan (whether part of that was an act, but I think part of that angry was in fact directed towards Gohan). The emphasis was entirely on how he slacked off. It's doubtful he'd act that way if Gohan in fact showed the ability to trounce Dabura moments ago. I think the focus would be rather on why Gohan isn't tapping on that power. Goku also recalls Gohan what he did vs Cell to help him beat Dabura... he didn't even mention what he did at the Budokai, which should suffice too. So I think the SSJ2 he used there was just ignored altogether.

 

[Papasmurf]

Gohan should've gone SSJ2 when blasting Boo's shell. Idk why AT was so reluctant on displaying a form that was Gohan's trademark during a far more important battle than an exhibition match against SSjin3 Kibito and Dabura.

 

[SSJ2]

The odd thing is there are near identical statements about Gohan’s power in both the Budokai and during his fight with Dabura. It’s said in both instances that he was stronger as a kid and that he slacked off in his training. A pretty redundant statement to include when it was already established at the Budokai, and before the Budokai. I think Toriyama forgot about it.

 

[Papasmurf]

He probably just wanted to remind newer readers of the power rankings. It's clear that he himself hadn't forgotten restraining Gohan at the Budokai since he made him remember that event in the ship. Although knowing AT's shitty memory he couldve forgotten that Gohan was stated to be signficantly weaker than his child self like he seemingly forgot Ginyu and Tao's power rankings.

 

[SSJ2]

Sure, but when you add the statement of Kaioshin telling Kibito that he never saw Gohan's capabilities, it seems that at the very least he forgot about how strong Gohan was against Kibito. Maybe he thought he was a regular Super Saiyan there.

 

[Hector]

SSJ1 and SSJ2 are not clearly distinctable states. Why couldn't he be something in-between?

 

[SSJ2]

 

[ahill1]

I think it's clear Toriyama didn't forget about it. He wouldn't forget something he drew chapters ago and to which he had characters mentioning the event. He imo simply went through a different route regarding Gohan's state at the Budokai. The event still happened at Shin's mind as he mentioned it, I think AT simply muddled the state Gohan used because he better thought it was reserved for Goku and Vegeta and made it a point for them to remember the Budokai instance but never the form Gohan used or the details surrounding it. Out of universe yeah, but sometimes I think going out of universe is better for reaching the truth. DB isn't a single universe, so out of universe explos sometimes are needed I think.

 

[SSJ2]

So why was he acting as though Kibito never witnessed Gohan's power when Kibito himself was the one who commented on Gohan's power being "bottomless"? The standing ki vs fighting ki argument simply doesn't cut it. There was no indication that Gohan's standing ki was that weak, the emphasis was simply that he was weaker than he was against Cell.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

View attachment 1251

Gohan looks more like the one on the left vs Dabra.

 

[SSJ2]

Lmao get off the acid.

 

[sei'taer]

Every time SSJ2 is used in the manga lightning is present even Gohan earlier in the buu saga. Lightning is not present when Gohan fights Dabura. Lightning is used a few chapters later with goku and vegeta. That's pretty much all you should need.