Gohan was a SSJ1 vs Dabura, in all likelihood

[Papasmurf]

Yeah DB always made the previous arc's villain fodder. Just look at Piccolo Jr. after 5 years of training getting scared shitless by Raditz who is fodder to Vegeta's right hand man, and Vegeta himself being fodder to Dodoria until his post-Galu Zenkais.

I'd even say DBS is more tame about this than Z was, what with Moro arguably not surpassing Jiren until his OG73 form and manga Hit (U6 arc) being arguably weaker than Golden Freeza.

That being said I always went with Gohan being SSJ1 here due to how SSJ1 Majin Vegeta was presented as a big threat and the art always supporting his use of the first form.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta is presented as a big threat because he can go SSJ2, assuming he isn’t one already. There’s also the drama in how he turned evil again when least expected.

 

[Papasmurf]

Babidi acted like Vegeta should've been enough to beat up Goku and Gohan and fill the rest of Boo's meter even before seeing his SSJ2 form, and he only activated SSJ2 upon feeling the need to when Goku used his.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Babidi acted like Vegeta should've been enough to beat up Goku and Gohan and fill the rest of Boo's meter even before seeing his SSJ2 form, and he only activated SSJ2 upon feeling the need to when Goku used his.

Babidi can’t sense Ki though. He thought Vegeta was enough because he’d seen him talking trash about Dabra. I don’t think this makes sense unless you think Base Vegeta > Dabra since Vegeta didn’t transform until after Babidi started the spell.

Also, Goku didn’t know Babidi had drawn out Vegeta’s power and had to be told that, meaning the power Vegeta was giving off was the same before and after the possession. So either Goku knew he could go SSJ2, or he was one already.

 

[FeatsofPower]

So essentially we don't have any good reasoning to why Gohan is only a Super Saiyan and why Goku and Vegeta don't acknowledge that he just turned Super Saiyan 2 earlier in the day. Such a headache, but in all likelihood, just Super Saiyan does probably seem to be the most reasonable all things considered. It's stupid, and can only be explained out of universe, but it appears to be the truth. I think I'm going to abandon the Super Saiyan 2 position. Is anyone willing to do a deep dive on the anime from right before Badibi's ship on to the Buu Ball?

 

[FeatsofPower]

It seems likely that Ssj Majin Vegeta is a much bigger threat than Dabura.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Base Vegeta acts like a much bigger threat than Dabra.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Base Vegeta acts like a much bigger threat than Dabra.

Base Vegeta is unable to defeat Yakon.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Base Vegeta is unable to defeat Yakon.

He doesn’t actually notice Base Goku is stronger than him vs Yakon, so Yakon might be Vegeta level.

Base Vegeta thinks Dabra is trash, but we know that’s because he has SSJ1 and 2. Always assume full power remember?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah so why would base Vegeta be more of a threat than Yakon?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Same reason SSJ1 Vegeta is more of a threat than Dabra (who can take on SSJ1 Goku) I guess.

 

[Tapion]

Having him as a Super Saiyan 1 requires you to arbitrarily ignore an entire portion of the story...

 

[Warrior_of_Mite]

Gohan HAS to have been a SS2. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Goku compares Dabura to Cell. So we have a few scenarios to think about:

1) Gohan is SS1 and Dabura is =/> Perfect Cell: Then Dabura should have smashed Gohan. Perfect Cell was shown to be stronger than any SS. Even when he fought evenly with Goku, we later find out that Cell was still suppressed. Gohan also got much weaker over the 7 year time jump. Perfect Cell > any CG SS character. So this can't be the answer.

2) Gohan is SS1 and Dabura is =/> Super Perfect Cell: Dabura would have smashed him even harder than the above statement. So this can't be the answer either.

3) Gohan is SS2 and Dabura is =/> Perfect Cell: Gohan would have ragdolled him like he did during the Cell Games. This did not happen. So this can't be the answer either.

4) Gohan is SS2 and Dabura is =/> Super Perfect Cell: In the Cell Games, after Gohan is injured and stated to have his ki at less than half, him and SPC have a rather even beam struggle. Implying they're close in power at that point. We see Buu Saga Gohan and Dabura fight in a rather even manner for the most part. This is only consistent with this option, #4. Therefore, Gohan had lost about as much power as he had when getting hit by Cell in the Cell Games. Vegeta saying Gohan's power loss was huge was correct. Gohan was SS2 and Dabura was comparable to SPC not Perfect Cell.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gohan HAS to have been a SS2. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Goku compares Dabura to Cell. So we have a few scenarios to think about:

1) Gohan is SS1 and Dabura is =/> Perfect Cell: Then Dabura should have smashed Gohan. Perfect Cell was shown to be stronger than any SS. Even when he fought evenly with Goku, we later find out that Cell was still suppressed. Gohan also got much weaker over the 7 year time jump. Perfect Cell > any CG SS character. So this can't be the answer.

2) Gohan is SS1 and Dabura is =/> Super Perfect Cell: Dabura would have smashed him even harder than the above statement. So this can't be the answer either.

3) Gohan is SS2 and Dabura is =/> Perfect Cell: Gohan would have ragdolled him like he did during the Cell Games. This did not happen. So this can't be the answer either.

4) Gohan is SS2 and Dabura is =/> Super Perfect Cell: In the Cell Games, after Gohan is injured and stated to have his ki at less than half, him and SPC have a rather even beam struggle. Implying they're close in power at that point. We see Buu Saga Gohan and Dabura fight in a rather even manner for the most part. This is only consistent with this option, #4. Therefore, Gohan had lost about as much power as he had when getting hit by Cell in the Cell Games. Vegeta saying Gohan's power loss was huge was correct. Gohan was SS2 and Dabura was comparable to SPC not Perfect Cell.

I wouldn’t say <50% power Gohan and SPC were even. Piccolo flat out points out Gohan doesn’t stand a chance, and you can see Cell enjoying himself and taking his time to slowly overpower Gohan.

Goku does say Dabra is better than he thought, so I think if the comparison is to the FP Cell then Dabra can fall somewhere in between.

The people who say Gohan was a SSJ1 say Dabra was compared to Cell’s suppressed power. What do you think of that?

 

[ahill1]

Dabura = Cell (vs Goku) is what I go with.

 

[SIAD]

I have:

Goku / Majin Vegeta SSJ2 > Kid Gohan SSJ2 (Enraged) > Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) > Dabura (FP) > Dabura (Suppressed vs Gohan) = SPC = Kid Gohan SSJ2 > Teen Gohan SSJ2.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta: 150
SSJ2 Gohan (Final Burst): 135
SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin): 120
SSJ2 Gohan/Dabra/SPC: 100
Perfect Cell: 75?

 

[SIAD]

SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta: 150
SSJ2 Gohan (Final Burst): 135
SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin): 120
SSJ2 Gohan/Dabra/SPC: 100
Perfect Cell: 75?

Yes and Teen Gohan SSJ2 = 90

 

[Warrior_of_Mite]

The people who say Gohan was a SSJ1 say Dabra was compared to Cell’s suppressed power. What do you think of that?

Wouldn't be possible. Suppressed Cell was even with MSS Goku. Gohan was stronger than Goku but not by an enormous amount. Vegeta scoffs at how much power Gohan had lost in the past 7 years. Gohan would have had to have only lost a small bit of power to be equal to suppressed Cell/CG Goku. Vegeta and Goku both admit Gohan lost a lot of power, not a little. If Dabura was suppressed Cell level he still should have bodied Gohan but he didn't. Dabura can't be suppressed Cell level.

 

[SSJ2]

Gohan literally states that he thought Goku and Cell were not serious when fighting. He was much stronger than Goku, and also Cell. Cell wasn't able to physically hurt him until well after he raised his speed.