Gohan was SSJ against Dabura.

SIAD

Elite
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
8,182
Age
33
It's simple, while Gohan and Dabura fought, Vegeta claimed that he was going to quickly get out of Dabura.

  Later, Goku thinks about finishing quickly with Majin Vegeta, transforming into SSJ2. But then Majin Vegeta becomes SSJ2 and Goku says that the fight will be much more difficult than he thought.

  In conclusion, Goku suspected that Vegeta could be transformed into SSJ2, but he was not 100% sure until he saw it. For while Goku did know that Vegeta was >> Dabura.

  Therefore, Gohan was SSJ against Dabura.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,040
Age
28
Not only that, but no SSJ2 was ever shown to have a Super Saiyan aura without consistent lightning sparks.
 

ahill1

Super Elite
Donor
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
14,646
Vegeta had also stated previously that himself and Goku are above Gohan, who had already shown SSJ2 ^_^.
 

GSM123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
15,353
Age
22
Vegeta's claim actually implies he had achieved Super Saiyan 2. Goku says Dabra would've been bad news 7 years ago and compared him to Cell, a foe absolutely no Super Saiyan could beat. Much like SSJ is needed to defeat Freeza, SSJ2 is needed to defeat Cell.

Goku's surprise would be that Vegeta has become as strrong as him, since Vegeta made pretty clear he had the form already.
 

Pakl

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
3,485
Age
28
GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Vegeta's claim actually implies he had achieved Super Saiyan 2. Goku says Dabra would've been bad news 7 years ago and compared him to Cell, a foe absolutely no Super Saiyan could beat. Much like SSJ is needed to defeat Freeza, SSJ2 is needed to defeat Cell.

Goku's surprise would be that Vegeta has become as strrong as him, since Vegeta made pretty clear he had the form already.

That makes no sense. Goku sensed SSjin Majin Vegeta was as strong as him so why would he be surprised about SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta be as strong as him. Yeah SSjin 2 is needed to beat Dabura which is why SSjin Gohan was almost losing.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,040
Age
28
Cell Games SSJ Goku: 100
Cell @ Goku: 110
CG SSJ Gohan: 140

Boo arc SSJ Gohan: 115
Dabra: 115
 

GSM123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
15,353
Age
22
Pakl said:
why would he be surprised about SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta be as strong as him. Yeah SSjin 2 is needed to beat Dabura which is why SSjin Gohan was almost losing.

Because he didn't expect Super Saiyan Vegeta to be as strong as him. Vegeta had made pretty clear earlier he had attained the form already.

A Gohan who was stronger than his SSJ2 Budokai power:
Kaioshin: “You were dead, Kibito, so you didn’t get to see Gohan here’s unbelievably tremendous power.”

Whether he was a SSJ or SSJ2, he definitely had the power of a SSJ2 there since he held his own vs Dabra. Since SSJ wall is a thing, he oughta be a SSJ2 there.

SSJ2 said:
Cell Games SSJ Goku: 100
Cell @ Goku: 110
CG SSJ Gohan: 140

Boo arc SSJ Gohan: 115
Dabra: 115

I don't think that works, Q. Gohan bodied Dabra hand to hand despite suppressed Cell rivaling SSJ Gohan. Goku also said he couldn't become any stronger when he left the Rosat.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,040
Age
28
Gohan and Dabra are equal for simplicity. Gohan obviously was a bit stronger, but it’s undeniable they were pretty close. Cell @ Goku is a different level than Cell @ Gohan. Goku’s post roast quote is proven wrong by the fact that he surpassed Gohan, so...
 

GSM123

Super Elite
Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
15,353
Age
22
[mention]Supreme[/mention] between breaking Dabra's guard with a kick, tanking an off guard blast and catching and breaking his sword, Gohan seemed pretty strong to me. Gohan was being kinda lazy when he fought Cell, but Cell at least made Gohan sweat in hand to hand.

He's only surpassed when Goku goes SSJ2 though. Vegeta didn't even think he was stronger than Gohan until he saw his SSJ2 burst against Yakon.

You see, it's not about seeing something that apparently contradicts it and saying "It's a contradiction". When confronted with conflicting evidence, you should stop and ask "Does this makes sense? Is this really implied in the story?". The idea that Goku hit his limit, but the idea he got stronger falls into conjecture, as it depends from another conjecture that is assuming that SSJ2 has fix multiplier despite this notion being not only never implied, but contradicted in the story.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,040
Age
28
We obviously have vastly different views on the story so I feel no need to continue this. You aren’t going to stop me from believing what I believe.

“Is this really implied in the story?”

Yup. There is no 1 way to view the story.
 

Let's Go Fearless!

Zeta Elite
25k
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
41,541
Age
25
Gohan was SSjin2 against Dabura. While fighting Dabura, he was compared to Kid Gohan by Vegeta. Now it doesn't make sense for Vegeta to compare SSjin Gohan to SSjin2 Kid Gohan hence what makes sense was that SSjin2 Gohan was fighting Dabura in order for comparison to make it work.
 

SIAD

Elite
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
8,182
Age
33
Fearless In Quarantine said:
Gohan was SSjin2 against Dabura. While fighting Dabura, he was compared to Kid Gohan by Vegeta. Now it doesn't make sense for Vegeta to compare SSjin Gohan to SSjin2 Kid Gohan hence what makes sense was that SSjin2 Gohan was fighting Dabura in order for comparison to make it work.

Vegeta was referring to losing a lot of power in equal ways. Not only did he not have SSJ2, he also lost a lot of power in the lower forms.

  Everything points out that AT forgot Gohan SSJ2 (Vs Kibito). Kaishin was surprised at how powerful Gohan was when he fought Dabura, despite having seen Gohan SSJ2 against Kibito.

  Most likely Goku suspected that Vegeta could transform into SSJ2, but whether or not it was the case, he knew Vegeta was >> Dabura. Therefore Vegeta SSJ >> Dabura.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,040
Age
28
SIAD said:
Fearless In Quarantine said:
Gohan was SSjin2 against Dabura. While fighting Dabura, he was compared to Kid Gohan by Vegeta. Now it doesn't make sense for Vegeta to compare SSjin Gohan to SSjin2 Kid Gohan hence what makes sense was that SSjin2 Gohan was fighting Dabura in order for comparison to make it work.

Vegeta was referring to losing a lot of power in equal ways. Not only did he not have SSJ2, he also lost a lot of power in the lower forms.

  Everything points out that AT forgot Gohan SSJ2 (Vs Kibito). Kaishin was surprised at how powerful Gohan was when he fought Dabura, despite having seen Gohan SSJ2 against Kibito.

  Most likely Goku suspected that Vegeta could transform into SSJ2, but whether or not it was the case, he knew Vegeta was >> Dabura. Therefore Vegeta SSJ >> Dabura.

It's nice to see someone else who still follows the Budokai retcon theory. We seem to be a dying breed. :nice
 

Let's Go Fearless!

Zeta Elite
25k
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
41,541
Age
25
SIAD said:
Fearless In Quarantine said:
Gohan was SSjin2 against Dabura. While fighting Dabura, he was compared to Kid Gohan by Vegeta. Now it doesn't make sense for Vegeta to compare SSjin Gohan to SSjin2 Kid Gohan hence what makes sense was that SSjin2 Gohan was fighting Dabura in order for comparison to make it work.

Vegeta was referring to losing a lot of power in equal ways. Not only did he not have SSJ2, he also lost a lot of power in the lower forms.

  Everything points out that AT forgot Gohan SSJ2 (Vs Kibito). Kaishin was surprised at how powerful Gohan was when he fought Dabura, despite having seen Gohan SSJ2 against Kibito.

  Most likely Goku suspected that Vegeta could transform into SSJ2, but whether or not it was the case, he knew Vegeta was >> Dabura. Therefore Vegeta SSJ >> Dabura.
Seems to me he was comparing Gohan's current best form to Kid Gohan's peak form which is SSjin2+rage. You also have Goku telling Vegeta that Gohan wasn't losing against Dabura implying that Gohan was going all out and has a chance to beat Dabura. If indeed Gohan was SSjin then Vegeta would tell Gohan to just go SSjin2 and beat Dabura so they can leave there but he didn't which again implies that was trying his best out there.

Another point was that Goku compared Dabura to Cell. Now either Goku referring to Full powered Cell or SPC but either way both would make Gohan as SSjin2.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,040
Age
28
Where was it stated that he was referring to FP or SPC? That is not in the manga.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Vegeta's claim actually implies he had achieved Super Saiyan 2. Goku says Dabra would've been bad news 7 years ago and compared him to Cell, a foe absolutely no Super Saiyan could beat. Much like SSJ is needed to defeat Freeza, SSJ2 is needed to defeat Cell.
That would be assuming it was a fact Goku was referring to Cell's FP Perfect or Super Perfect form. If we were doing so for the latter, a large gap between SPC and Cell Games SS2 Gohan would be necessary, despite Cell having become strong enough to be confident against someone who stomped him prior and an attack intended to kill a weakened Vegeta being enough to heavily damage Gohan in a way no off-guard attack from a supposedly far weaker opponent never being replicated during the manga's original run.

GreatSaiyaman123 said:
Goku also said he couldn't become any stronger when he left the Rosat.
A character's estimations of their limits can be proven to be completely wrong. Kuririn believed he'd never stack up to the likes of Reacoom, yet became strong enough to be helpful against Freeza (at least 75k according to V-Jump). Vegeta believed his final Zenkai on Namek was his limit and by the time of the Boo Arc, Goku found the idea of someone being brought beyond their natural limit something common.
The idea of there being no true limits is perhaps the most common theme of the franchise. No need to take Goku's opinion in that scene as fact.
 

Let's Go Fearless!

Zeta Elite
25k
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
41,541
Age
25
Super Saiyan said:
Where was it stated that he was referring to FP or SPC? That is not in the manga.

Of course it wasn't but it makes sense for him to be talking about Cell's peak which is either SPC or FP Cell.
 

sei'taer

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
4,235
Super Saiyan said:
Not only that, but no SSJ2 was ever shown to have a Super Saiyan aura without consistent lightning sparks.

There's simply never been any counter to the fact that every instance of SSJ2 in the story has had lightning. Gohan has no lightning even when in the same chapters with Goku and Vegeta with lightning.
 

SSJ2

Zeta Elite
Staff member
Founder
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
67,040
Age
28
People say that “the story” implies that he was SSJ2. While the writing is downright atrocious in that section (I tend to believe that SSJ2 Budokai Gohan was retconned/AT forgot), the story is a manga.. The artwork is just as much of a part of the story as the dialogue. I simply can’t say that Gohan is SSJ2 while Goku/Vegeta had the correct auras in the same chapter.
 

Latest profile posts

Bro got caught deleting his post huehuehue
Officer Porch responding to the scene huehue
Top