Goku and Vegeta's lower forms

ahill1

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So, talking about their Super manga selves, we know that the first comparison we can trace between Goku and Vegeta was in the BoG arc, when Vegeta got rage boosted due to Beerus slapping Bulma and performed considerably better than Goku. Even though there was no comparison through a statement like in the anime, we still know Vegeta surpassed Goku based on their performances, and Beerus even stated that Vegeta isn't the SSJG, which implies he's the one, until there, who came the closest to achieve such realm of power.

So Vegeta SSJ2 (BoG, rage boosted) >>> Goku SSJ3.

Then, we move onto the U6 arc, in which we see Goku and Vegeta fighting evenly in their base form. The simplest conclusion to take from the fight scene is that their base form are on a similar plateau from each other. Goku could still pull ahead of Vegeta with the Shunkan Idou, but that was due to the technique.

So, Vegeta base (U6 arc) = Goku base (U6 arc).

There's nothing in the Tournament openly comparing their lower states, so we can only assume their base form are still on even ground. But then, moving onto the Zamasu's arc, we have another piece of evidence indicating that Vegeta's SSJ2 is still considerably above Goku SSJ3, as Trunks SSJ2, who was as strong as Goku SSJ3, was no match for base Black, yet Vegeta SSJ2 could outperform SSJ Black, illustrating how much above Goku SSJ3 he is.

So we can assume either that Goku also got a totally random boost going to Trunks' future that put him on par with Vegeta in their SSJ2 forms... or that Vegeta SSJ2 is simply that stronger, likely due to a permanent rage boost.

Assuming the former, we'd liekly have to raise Goku's SSJ God and Blue powers to compensate for the jump in power his SSJ2 and 3 has suffered, only for the sake of being on par with Vegeta.

But when assuming the latter, that is, that Vegeta SSJ2 is still way above Goku SSJ3, how can you make that fit with the implications that the simple SSJ is about as strong as < 10% SSJB? If Vegeta SSJ2 is already that much above Goku's SSJ3, wouldn't such form be already super close to his God forms? How can you sort that out numerically? For instance:


Goku SSJ : 7
--> Blue (less than 10%) : 8
--> SSJ2 : 12
--> SSJ3 : 24
--> SSJG : 60
--> SSJB : 100

That's a reasonable numerical representation. But with Vegeta, we'd have to account for a very powerful SSJ2 state in order for him to have outperformed someone's SSJ, whereas this someone's base was already enough to outperform a SSJ3 Goku's opponent level:

Trunks SSJ2 : 24
Black base : 27
Black SSJ ~ 50
Vegeta SSJ2 : 60

... that's about as far as I can possibly make it reasonable, in which case there wouldn't be enough spacing between Vegeta's SSJ2 and his God forms, given mainly the implications in the U6 Tournament that less than half Blue Vegeta (which couldn't be too much less than 10%, otherwise "less than half" would be an understatement) isn't much stronger than his SSJ state, as Goku SSJ could still fight evenly with suppressed Hit, who had the power to get Vegeta into his time feeezing ability.

So, help me with this.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Vegeta had a powered-up version of Super-Saiyan 2 maybe. I say maybe because even I don't believe it.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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SSJ Goku: 10
~ SSJ2: 20
~ SSJ3: 40
~ SSJG: 100
~ SSJB: 125
SSJ2 Trunks: 37.8
Black: 48
~ SSJ: 54
SSJ2 Vegeta: 60

Here it is. Vegeta is closer to SSJ3 than to SSJG here.
 

ahill1

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Damn, Trunks stated that the Black who fought Vegeta is even stronger than the one he fought... that's tough.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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I have Black getting 1.1x stronger there. I just don't mind the power gaps and make it all pretty minimalist.
 
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