Goku Black SSJR (Just before it works) vs Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat)? They are both from the anime. I'm a bit confused here, they don't really show

[SIAD]

Goku Black SSJR (Just before it works) vs Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat)?

They are both from the anime.

I'm a bit confused here, they don't really show Goku Black SSJR (Enraged) vs Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat) in combat. It is only seen that they were going to fight, then Goku and Vegeta are shown fighting Goku Black's clones.

Goku Black and Future Zamasu are later shown commenting that the only alternative they had was to fuse. Gowasu comments that Merged Zamasu is the fusion of the most powerful Warrior (Goku Black) and an Immortal (Future Zamasu).

All this makes me think that Goku Black SSJR (Enraged) is only slightly more powerful than Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat), but since Vegeta is a better fighter and has the Final Flash, he could defeat Goku Black.

Also, while Future Trunks takes care of Future Zamasu, the other takes care of helping Vegeta defeat Goku Black very easily.

I like to have: Vegeta SSJB (Final Flash) > Goku Black SSJR (Enraged) > Vegeta SSJB.

Vegeta having better techniques and being a better fighter than Goku Black, they overcome the small power disadvantage he has.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gowasu said Goku Black was the strongest fighter, meaning he’s above Goku, Vegeta and even Hit since he saw Goku vs Hit on GodTube.

Goku Black’s weak clones were also giving Goku and Vegeta trouble while he only had to sit and watch, saying he wanted them to get stronger to fight him. He only wanted to fuse because Zamasu was going to be defeated.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gowasu said Goku Black was the strongest fighter, meaning he’s above Goku, Vegeta and even Hit since he saw Goku vs Hit on GodTube.

Goku Black’s weak clones were also giving Goku and Vegeta trouble while he only had to sit and watch, saying he wanted them to get stronger to fight him. He only wanted to fuse because Zamasu was going to be defeated.

I dont see why that have to include Hit, especially when Vegeta only comments that Zamasu was the strongest ki he ever felt one episode after (which puts him above ssjblue kaioken x10 Goku and Hit from Champa arc), he never gave black that treatment in episode 64. Plus, observing and sensing are different things.

 

[SIAD]

Goku Black wanted Vegeta and Goku to get stronger so that Goku Black would become more powerful again.

The Clones of Goku Black reappeared every moment and the only way to kill them was to destroy Goku Black's Sickle.

The truth is that it makes me a lot to have Vegeta and Goku defeating Goku Black and Future Zamasu in the moment before the fusions. Nothing indicates that Vegeta and Goku got stronger fighting Goku Black Clones.

I have:

Merged Zamasu Halo > Goku SSJB (Peak Arc Zamasu) > Merged Zamasu >>> Goku / Vegeta SSJB (Power Up) >= Future Trunks SSJRage (Peak) = Goku Black SSJR (Peak) > Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat) >> Goku Black SSJR (Zenkai Power) = Future Trunks SSJRage >>> Goku SSJB (Enraged) > Goku Black SSJR (FP) >>> Goku Black SSJR (Suppressed) >> Goku / Vegeta SSJB (Start Arc Zamasu).

 

[Animelover5487]

Agreed. Enraged SSJR Black is stronger than Vegeta but not by so much that he can take on him, Goku and Trunks together. Black only held the upper hand through hax.

 

[Goku9001]

Goku Black wanted Vegeta and Goku to get stronger so that Goku Black would become more powerful again.

The Clones of Goku Black reappeared every moment and the only way to kill them was to destroy Goku Black's Sickle.

The truth is that it makes me a lot to have Vegeta and Goku defeating Goku Black and Future Zamasu in the moment before the fusions. Nothing indicates that Vegeta and Goku got stronger fighting Goku Black Clones.

I have:

Merged Zamasu Halo > Goku SSJB (Peak Arc Zamasu) > Merged Zamasu >>> Goku / Vegeta SSJB (Power Up) >= Future Trunks SSJRage (Peak) = Goku Black SSJR (Peak) > Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat) >> Goku Black SSJR (Zenkai Power) = Future Trunks SSJRage >>> Goku SSJB (Enraged) > Goku Black SSJR (FP) >>> Goku Black SSJR (Suppressed) >> Goku / Vegeta SSJB (Start Arc Zamasu).

Vegeta and Trunks should be well beyond the peak of SSJR Goku Black during their fight with Merged Zamasu. SSJ Rage Trunks was supposedly equal or relatively close to SSJB Vegeta who powered during the Galick Gun clash. Prior to that, he managed plow through Lightning of Absolution which is much stronger than Blades of Judgement. Merged Zamasu's power was stated to be much greater than anything they've encountered which includes SSJR Goku Black when Zamasu was using Blades of Judgement. Since Zamasu exerted more power using Lightning of Absolution, it stands to reason that Vegeta and Trunks should be much stronger than SSJR Goku Black. On top of Vegeta blasting through that large ki construct Zamasu made and further powering up his Galick Gun during his clash with Merged Zamasu's Holy Wrath.

 

[Animelover5487]

I love how consistent the Saiyans getting stronger throughout the Black and MZ fights is with Blue Goku being equal to an unrestrained Hit without using Kaioken.

 

[SIAD]

@Goku9001
@Animelover5487

If Goku SSJB (U6) Fighting level is 1.

What levels do you give to:

Hit (Peak / U6) =

Goku / Vegeta SSJB (Start Arc Zamasu) =

Goku Black SSJR =

Goku SSJB (Enraged) =

Goku Black SSJR (Zenkai Power) =

Future Trunks SSJRage =

Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat) =

Goku Black SSJR (Peak) =

Future Trunks SSJRage (Peak) =

Vegeta SSJB (Peak Arc Zamasu) =

Goku SSJB (Peak Arc Zamasu) =

Merged Zamasu =

Merged Zamasu Halo =

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I dont see why that have to include Hit, especially when Vegeta only comments that Zamasu was the strongest ki he ever felt one episode after (which puts him above ssjblue kaioken x10 Goku and Hit from Champa arc), he never gave black that treatment in episode 64. Plus, observing and sensing are different things.

Zamasu was pretty impressed by Goku only by watching him and even comments on his god Ki, so it looks like they can get a good grasp by watching the video somehow. A producer of the show has also said that after Beerus, Goku Black was the strongest fighter up to that point.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Zamasu was pretty impressed by Goku only by watching him and even comments on his god Ki, so it looks like they can get a good grasp by watching the video somehow. A producer of the show has also said that after Beerus, Goku Black was the strongest fighter up to that point.

Do you have an statement fot that? iirc Zamasu only mentions that is the ki of deities, I doubt that they can get a grasp of how strong they are, especially when Gowasu at the beginning thought Goku could rival beerus without using any divine transformation, they seems to be pretty much unaware to comprehend those things, plus, we cant tell how much of the fight between goku and hit gowasu watched since it was off screen. Yeah, but kaioken goku was also able to kick merged zamasu away, I dont see why he couldnt defeat black either, hit wasn't an available character at that point, so I dont see why that could include hit either.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Do you have an statement fot that? iirc Zamasu only mentions that is the ki of deities, I doubt that they can get a grasp of how strong they are, especially when Gowasu at the beginning thought Goku could rival beerus without using any divine transformation, they seems to be pretty much unaware to comprehend those things, plus, we cant tell how much of the fight between goku and hit gowasu watched since it was off screen. Yeah, but kaioken goku was also able to kick merged zamasu away, I dont see why he couldnt defeat black either, hit wasn't an available character at that point, so I dont see why that could include hit either.

I mean if he can tell Goku has god Ki it’s because he’s got a grasp on it right? Visually there isn’t much different between normal Ki and god Ki. He also knew

Gowasu had SSJ2 Goku right in front of him and Ki sensing is a basic ability of the gods. I think it’s more that Gowasu underestimated how strong Beerus is.

Goku could only attack Merged Zamasu like that after going beyond his limits and breaking down his entire body. He probably wouldn’t do as good with his normal full power.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I mean if he can tell Goku has god Ki it’s because he’s got a grasp on it right? Visually there isn’t much different between normal Ki and god Ki. He also knew

Gowasu had SSJ2 Goku right in front of him and Ki sensing is a basic ability of the gods. I think it’s more that Gowasu underestimated how strong Beerus is.

Goku could only attack Merged Zamasu like that after going beyond his limits and breaking down his entire body. He probably wouldn’t do as good with his normal full power.

Yeah, but one thing is know that someone has divine ki and another is know the exact multiplier of the form (which we don't know wheter Zamasu knows, since he was also impressed by Kaioken ssjb goku). Or maybe they can't tell how strong are characters far stronger than them... Yeah, and he had the arms and one leg broken, anyways, why couldn't the mention of Goku black is the strongest can be referred to his potential of growing and not because he actually is?

 

[Goku9001]

@Goku9001
@Animelover5487

If Goku SSJB (U6) Fighting level is 1.

What levels do you give to:

Hit (Peak / U6) =

Goku / Vegeta SSJB (Start Arc Zamasu) =

Goku Black SSJR =

Goku SSJB (Enraged) =

Goku Black SSJR (Zenkai Power) =

Future Trunks SSJRage =

Vegeta SSJB (Post Rosat) =

Goku Black SSJR (Peak) =

Future Trunks SSJRage (Peak) =

Vegeta SSJB (Peak Arc Zamasu) =

Goku SSJB (Peak Arc Zamasu) =

Merged Zamasu =

Merged Zamasu Halo =

I hate doing numbers, but here goes:


If Goku SSJB (U6) Fighting level is 1.

What levels do you give to:

Hit (Peak / U6) = 10

SSJB Goku (Zamasu): 15
SSJB Vegeta (Zamasu): 13
SSJ2 Trunks: 13

SSJR Goku Black (1st visit): 16
SSJR Goku Black (2nd visit): 20

SSJB Goku (Enraged) = 25
SSJR Goku Black (Post-Rageku): 30

SSJRage Future Trunks (Initial): 30
SSJRage Future Trunks (Power Up 1): 40
SSJR Goku Black (Post-RageTrunks): 55
SSJRage Future Trunks (Full Power): 55

SSJB Vegeta (Post Rosat): 60
SSJB Vegeta (Fueled By Anger): 75
SSJB Goku (Post-Mafubu): 55
SSJB Goku (vs. Goku Black Clones): 75

SSJR Goku Black (Peak): 100
SSJRage Future Trunks (Peak) = 1000+
SSJB Vegeta (Peak Arc Zamasu) = 1000+
SSJB Goku (Peak Arc Zamasu) = 1500+

Merged Zamasu = ???
Unsure on this, Merged Zamasu dons a halo immediately after fusion.

Merged Zamasu Halo = 2000+

The figures with a (+) represents the minimums. Vegeta and Trunks are at minimum 10x SSJR Goku Black given how hard they pushed back Merged Zamasu.

 

[SIAD]

I hate doing numbers, but here goes:


If Goku SSJB (U6) Fighting level is 1.

What levels do you give to:

Hit (Peak / U6) = 10

SSJB Goku (Zamasu): 15
SSJB Vegeta (Zamasu): 13
SSJ2 Trunks: 13

SSJR Goku Black (1st visit): 16
SSJR Goku Black (2nd visit): 20

SSJB Goku (Enraged) = 25
SSJR Goku Black (Post-Rageku): 30

SSJRage Future Trunks (Initial): 30
SSJRage Future Trunks (Power Up 1): 40
SSJR Goku Black (Post-RageTrunks): 55
SSJRage Future Trunks (Full Power): 55

SSJB Vegeta (Post Rosat): 60
SSJB Vegeta (Fueled By Anger): 75
SSJB Goku (Post-Mafubu): 55
SSJB Goku (vs. Goku Black Clones): 75

SSJR Goku Black (Peak): 100
SSJRage Future Trunks (Peak) = 1000+
SSJB Vegeta (Peak Arc Zamasu) = 1000+
SSJB Goku (Peak Arc Zamasu) = 1500+

Merged Zamasu = ???
Unsure on this, Merged Zamasu dons a halo immediately after fusion.

Merged Zamasu Halo = 2000+

The figures with a (+) represents the minimums. Vegeta and Trunks are at minimum 10x SSJR Goku Black given how hard they pushed back Merged Zamasu.

What I don't agree with is that because Vegeta would declare just after feeling a part of the power of Merged Zamasu Halo, that it is the first time he feels such a powerful Ki. That wouldn't mean Goku SSJB Kaioken x10 (Kamehameha) >= Merged Zamasu?

And following those numbers, what Power Level would you give Goku SSJB (Start of ToP) and Hit (ToP)?