Goku doesn't have to be at full Chi when he fought Innocent Boo

[Clearin]

Vegeta never saw SSj3 Goku from the afterlife. The first time he saw SSj3 was when Goku used it vs Kid Boo:
Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”

While I can agree that it isn't necessarily fact that Goku can't suppress in SSj3, that's slightly different to saying Goku was definitely suppressing vs Fat Boo.

 

[kriss-]

He saw the Metamoran dance from the afterlife, this occurred after Goku used SSj3; therefore he saw that as well.

 

[Clearin]

He saw the Metamoran dance from the afterlife, this occurred after Goku used SSj3; therefore he saw that as well.

You're right. I checked and Vegeta does indeed say he saw SSj3 from the afterlife too. I guess there's a difference between seeing something as a spirit in the afterlife, and seeing it "with my own eyes". We don't know how Vegeta saw the stuff on Earth from the afterlife, especially without a body.

Either way, Vegeta acts like this will be the first time he's TRULY experiencing Super Saiyan 3, so it makes sense it's only now that he can appreciate the power it gives out.

 

[kriss-]

He saw, so therefore he has seen. He can base characters current battle powers from merely examining their movements. There shouldn't be any distinction needed. The 'his own body' argument is simply a desperate cop-out. There is a very specific reason Goku against Pure Boo is beyond what he expected, because he's performing above what he has seen.

 

[Clearin]

He saw, so therefore he has seen. He can base characters current battle powers from merely examining their movements. There shouldn't be any distinction needed. The 'his own body' argument is simply a desperate cop-out. There is a very specific reason Goku against Pure Boo is beyond what he expected, because he's performing above what he has seen.

It's not a cop-out, since Vegeta saying "let me see this Super Saiyan 3 thing with my own eyes" is clearly Vegeta making a distinction between seeing Super Saiyan 3 as a living being near the battle field (as he did when he watched Android 19 and Dabura) is different from seeing something in the afterlife. If they were the same thing, Vegeta wouldn't act like he's truly seeing SSj3 for the first time.

 

[kriss-]

He's still seen Super Saiyan 3.

Vegeta didn't act like he was surprised at Goku SSj3 until he began performing above what he expected.

 

[ahill1]

Good points, Clearin.

Besides this, Goku held back in effort against Kid Boo, so how do you expect Vegeta to accurately gauge his power?

 

[kriss-]

Sigh...

We're going in fucking circles. Have anybody actually read everything beforehand?

 

[Clearin]

He's still seen Super Saiyan 3.

Vegeta didn't act like he was surprised at Goku SSj3 until he began performing above what he expected.

If Vegeta can judge a characters strength purely by their movements, why was he so surprised at Kid Boo's power when he fought him? And that was after seeing Kid Boo "with his own eyes".

 

[ahill1]

Another Good point, Clearin.

And I actually readed all of your arguments, Tosh. But if there's the possibility Vegeta cannot sense Goku's SSJ3 ki, so the only way to him accurately gauge his power would be by his movements... but Goku held back in effort, so how do you expect for him to be able to say Goku's SSJ3 full power?

Therefore, this argument doesn't prove Goku was "suppressing" against Fat Boo, only holding back "in effort", that is, not going all out.

 

[kriss-]

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P12.6
Vegeta: “The truth is you were right [that I’d be killed by Boo]. That Boo is stronger than I imagined…And so are you, Kakarot…”

Doesn't matter. He still saw Super Saiyan 3; therefore he can determine how strong he was at that time.

 

[ahill1]

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P12.6
Vegeta: “The truth is you were right [that I’d be killed by Boo]. That Boo is stronger than I imagined…And so are you, Kakarot…”

Doesn't matter. He still saw Super Saiyan 3; therefore he can determine how strong he was at that time.

Not if Goku held back in effort.

 

[kriss-]

There is no evidence that Goku did.

Goku SSj3 (100%, Unseen) > Goku SSj3 (vs Kid Boo) > Goku SSj3 (Expected) > Goku SSj3 (vs Innocent Boo)

 

[ahill1]

So now are you saying Goku was not suppressed against Fatboi? What's your point, dude?

 

[kriss-]

So now are you saying Goku was not suppressed against Fatboi? What's your point, dude?

There is no evidence that Goku went all out. You misinterpreted what I said.

 

[ahill1]

No, you said there's no evidence Goku did held back... and because of this, I don't get what's your point now.

Anyways, if Goku held back only in effort, there's a reason Vegeta would not be able to gauge his full power, since his movements would be less impressive than if he was going all out in effort.

 

[kriss-]

I think you're confusing yourself champ.

You: Not if Goku held back in effort.
Me: There is no evidence he did.

You're arguing that Goku was at full power but pulled his punches.

I'm arguing that he was suppressed and he was not at full power and did not pull his punches.

Therefore Vegeta would be surprised at the power both him and Kid Boo are displaying at the present time. Whereas in the past, he could determine how strong he was at that time.