Goku EoZ(Base)>>>Goku Ssj3?

[Eu sou Perfeito]

 

[Power Level Guy]

No, as we can see, Goku is expecting Uub to reach the level of power that Kid Buu achieved. Goku seems to imply he's on Mr. Buu's level, and that a level reaching Kid Buu's level could defeat him.

Kid Buu = Uub (Full Power) 100
Uub 80
Goku 75
Mr. Buu 75

Goku has grown insanely powerful, his Base power starting to near his Super Saiyan 3 power from 10 years prior, but he's not quite there yet.

Base Goku doesn't finally surpass his Super Saiyan 3 power until well into GT, when his Base power is confirmed to be stronger than someone stronger than Kid Buu.

Base Goku (GT) > General Rild > Kid Buu = SSJ3 Goku

It took Goku 5 years of training with Uub to finally substantially surpass his Super Saiyan 3 power from the Buu Saga.

 

[SSJ2]

Kid Buu = Uub (Full Power) 100
Uub 80
Goku 75
Mr. Buu 75

So you think Boo became much stronger by the time of the Budokai? I'm not sure I agree though.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P1.3
Context: after Goten and Boo are matched up in the tournament's first round
Goten: “Th-that can’t be! How can I go up against Boo right in the first round?!”
Goku: “It’s only a problem because you keep slacking off in your training.”

It sounds like Goku doesn't consider Boo to be a problem, even if he mentions him as a potential winner. I think he's just recognizing that Boo is ahead of the rest.

 

[Dagon]

So you think Boo became much stronger by the time of the Budokai? I'm not sure I agree though.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P1.3
Context: after Goten and Boo are matched up in the tournament's first round
Goten: “Th-that can’t be! How can I go up against Boo right in the first round?!”
Goku: “It’s only a problem because you keep slacking off in your training.”

It sounds like Goku doesn't consider Boo to be a problem, even if he mentions him as a potential winner. I think he's just recognizing that Boo is ahead of the rest.

That only really means Goku's estimate of fully trained Goten could contest with that likes of Mr. Buu.

 

[Power Level Guy]

So you think Boo became much stronger by the time of the Budokai? I'm not sure I agree though.

No, I think Mr. Buu is the same exact power as he was during the Kid Buu Saga. When Buff Buu is deforming, I believe Good Buu is somehow responsible and reabsorbs South Kaioshin's essence into his being, bringing back his former power as Fat Buu. Head canon no doubt, but that power must have gone somewhere, and the way Mr. Buu performs against Kid Buu, it always seemed like a perfect idea of Fat Buu vs Kid Buu imo. Also, everyone treats Mr. Buu like Fat Buu, so I've been rolling with this idea for quite some time.

It sounds like Goku doesn't consider Boo to be a problem, even if he mentions him as a potential winner. I think he's just recognizing that Boo is ahead of the rest.

Buu is a potential winner since Goku's base power is still within his realm. This tells us just how strong Goku has gotten since he can contend with Mr. Buu in his base power now.

 

[Hector]

Goku seems to imply he's on Mr. Buu's level

When?

 

[Power Level Guy]

When?

When he tells Hercule that neither he, Vegeta, or Majin Buu may win this time. They seem to be fighting in Base only, how can Goku and Vegeta expect to win against Majin Buu if they aren't at least as strong as him?

 

[Hector]

When he tells Hercule that neither he, Vegeta, or Majin Buu may win this time. They seem to be fighting in Base only, how can Goku and Vegeta expect to win against Majin Buu if they aren't at least as strong as him?

The no-SSJ rule was agreed at the previous tournament to slightly increase the weaklings' chances to win. It defeats the purpose if the opponent is vastly stronger than their base form. I see no evidence that supports they improved so much as to not need SSJ against Buu, especially considering it was implied they were close to their limits 10 years ago at Buu Saga.

 

[Dagon]

The no-SSJ rule was agreed at the previous tournament to slightly increase the weaklings' chances to win. It defeats the purpose if the opponent is vastly stronger than their base form. I see no evidence that supports they improved so much as to not need SSJ against Buu, especially considering it was implied they were close to their limits 10 years ago at Buu Saga.

They don't want to be harassed by the media and they agree to protect Mr. Satan's lie of defeating Cell. The public would recognize them as the Cell Games fighters if they used Super Saiyan.

 

[Power Level Guy]

The no-SSJ rule was agreed at the previous tournament to slightly increase the weaklings' chances to win. It defeats the purpose if the opponent is vastly stronger than their base form. I see no evidence that supports they improved so much as to not need SSJ against Buu, especially considering it was implied they were close to their limits 10 years ago at Buu Saga.

No, the no-SSJ rule was created to help not cause uproar. It should apply to all future tournaments so long as it's not needed.

Considering Goku nearly matched Kid Buu's power, it appears it wasn't needed.

Notice how Goten does not use Super Saiyan, despite being outmatched?

 

[ahill1]

When did Goten not use SSJ?

Btw, I think Mr. Boo is on the level of the fat Boo who fought SSJ3 Goku, not Good Boo. For one, I think it's possible Boo got that power expelled into him again... Boo was being kept in a special pod and was released and Super Boo dismantled and ceased existing... It's possible that through all that process of turning kid Boo, Boo got that power of Grey Boo expelled back once Super Boo lost his essence. That Boo would basically be the Boo with South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin. And it's also backed up by Goku, who hadn't known Boo lost power by expelling Grey Boo and didn't notice how he was way weaker than when he fought him, which were his power more than halved, that'd be worth taking note. Plus, his performance vs Kid Boo wasn't THAT bad. Heck, just reread it, and it didn't seem that one sided initially, with them both hitting each other and little Boo seeming a lot serious. But fat Boo admits he can't win and as soon as he does so, the fight becomes very one sided. I'd say it's possible fat Boo lost power right after Kid Boo ran through his head and then blasted his chest, but Vegeta's remark seems to imply Mr. Boo was only losing power when he made that statement... Which were it apparent before, he'd have likely done earlier. So idk, it seemed close to an extent earlier but then it didn't seem anymore.

Only if the loss of power was already happening but Vegeta didn't notice it because he was thinking in his plan, highlighting that once he was more focused since Shenlong was in a task to revive ppl and he was waiting... So as soon as fat Boo lost some power and became enraged and rushed into the battle, it became easier for kid Boo to dominate.

I can buy Mr. Boo being 80% of SSJ3 Goku and kid Boo... With Goku if fighting Mr. Boo/fat Boo having more problems because of Boo's never falling stamina vs him, which can happen vs Kid Boo. Maybe base Goku is a 90 to his previous SSJ3 100 and Oob was in that realm. Though if Goku already expected a 90% of kid Boo from Oob, why not 100%? Doesn't make sense. So perhaps Goku's fighting abilities and way better martial arts knowledge allowed him to keep up on even terms with Oob despite being 1.1x below... Making Goku and Oob close enough to Mr. Boo that it's still a possibility this latter wins due to not getting hurt and stamina limit, with Goku not being SO above him in base.

SSJ3 Goku 100
Kid Boo 100

Mr. Boo 80
Goku 90
Oob 100

 

[Power Level Guy]

When did Goten not use SSJ?

Btw, I think Mr. Boo is on the level of the fat Boo who fought SSJ3 Goku, not Good Boo. For one, I think it's possible Boo got that power expelled into him again... Boo was being kept in a special pod and was released and Super Boo dismantled and ceased existing... It's possible that through all that process of turning kid Boo, Boo got that power of Grey Boo expelled back once Super Boo lost his essence. That Boo would basically be the Boo with South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin. And it's also backed up by Goku, who hadn't known Boo lost power by expelling Grey Boo and didn't notice how he was way weaker than when he fought him, which were his power more than halved, that'd be worth taking note. Plus, his performance vs Kid Boo wasn't THAT bad. Heck, just reread it, and it didn't seem that one sided initially, with them both hitting each other and little Boo seeming a lot serious. But fat Boo admits he can't win and as soon as he does so, the fight becomes very one sided. I'd say it's possible fat Boo lost power right after Kid Boo ran through his head and then blasted his chest, but Vegeta's remark seems to imply Mr. Boo was only losing power when he made that statement... Which were it apparent before, he'd have likely done earlier. So idk, it seemed close to an extent earlier but then it didn't seem anymore.

Only if the loss of power was already happening but Vegeta didn't notice it because he was thinking in his plan, highlighting that once he was more focused since Shenlong was in a task to revive ppl and he was waiting... So as soon as fat Boo lost some power and became enraged and rushed into the battle, it became easier for kid Boo to dominate.

I can buy Mr. Boo being 80% of SSJ3 Goku and kid Boo... With Goku if fighting Mr. Boo/fat Boo having more problems because of Boo's never falling stamina vs him, which can happen vs Kid Boo. Maybe base Goku is a 90 to his previous SSJ3 100 and Oob was in that realm. Though if Goku already expected a 90% of kid Boo from Oob, why not 100%? Doesn't make sense. So perhaps Goku's fighting abilities and way better martial arts knowledge allowed him to keep up on even terms with Oob despite being 1.1x below... Making Goku and Oob close enough to Mr. Boo that it's still a possibility this latter wins due to not getting hurt and stamina limit, with Goku not being SO above him in base.

SSJ3 Goku 100
Kid Boo 100

Mr. Boo 80
Goku 90
Oob 100

Yeah, this is a good analysis. But don't overhyped Buu's regeneration here, Goku can kill Buu with a FP Kamehameha in his Base form with no problems. And he has zero stamina issues with his Base power. But all that is besides the point, to defeat Buu here is simple, all you need to do is ring-out him. So a lot of these concerns are secondary.

Mr. Buu 75
Goku 75
Uub 80
Enraged Uub 100
Kid Buu 100

That's how I think it goes.

And I agree with South Kaioshin's essence being reabsorbed into Mr. Buu, nice point on bringing up how Goku doesn't notice a difference in power.

Do you think this power should represent South Kaioshin's actual power? I think Good Buu = Dai Kaioshin and Evil Buu = South Kaioshin. What do you think?

 

[ahill1]

@Power Level Guy

Yes, that's a nice point, I think it's very possible the Grey Boo, representing the essence of the Boo that had the effect of South Kaioshin while Good Boo doing so for Dai Kaioshin can make sense... And that fat Boo is the adding of both with Dai Kaioshin coming out with a heavier influence, and Super Boo would be benefitting from South Kaioshin as the one in control. While Grey Boo seemed more like the evil essence of Boo, I still wonder what's the main difference between him and Kid Boo... I think it's possible is his evil side with the representation of South Kaioshin power but without accounting for the power up Kid Boo got on top of absorbing South Kaioshin.

Btw, if Goku expected Oob to be 80% of Kid Boo, why not 100%.

 

[Power Level Guy]

@Power Level Guy

Yes, that's a nice point, I think it's very possible the Grey Boo, representing the essence of the Boo that had the effect of South Kaioshin while Good Boo doing so for Dai Kaioshin can make sense... And that fat Boo is the adding of both with Dai Kaioshin coming out with a heavier influence, and Super Boo would be benefitting from South Kaioshin as the one in control. While Grey Boo seemed more like the evil essence of Boo, I still wonder what's the main difference between him and Kid Boo... I think it's possible is his evil side with the representation of South Kaioshin power but without accounting for the power up Kid Boo got on top of absorbing South Kaioshin.

Btw, if Goku expected Oob to be 80% of Kid Boo, why not 100%.

Hmm, seems to be Dai Kaioshin still effecting Evil Buu, so Good Buu isn't purely Dai Kaioshin, since Dai Kaioshin no doubt effects Evil Buu. South Kaioshin on his own has no moral effect, he's merely a super-power up for Kid Buu.

Btw, if Goku expected Oob to be 80% of Kid Boo, why not 100%.

He expected Uub to reach 100% of Kid Buu's power. Which Uub did. Uub met the expectations.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah. The main thing we get is that Buff Boo is Boo with South Kaioshin coming out strong and achieving a massive power up.... While Fat Boo is Boo with Dai Kaioshin under control and taming Boo, having the opposite effect by calming his heart and locking his power. Kid Boo doesn't have none of the Kaioshins influence...

... And perhaps Good/gentle Boo had both Dai Kaioshin and South Kaioshin inside him... And Grey Boo was all of Fat Boo's malice that was being kept under control, but still different from Kid Boo, since all of Fat Boo's malice would still be in a restricted level, not an unhinged level, so even though Grey Boo may be under no direct, inside him, Kaioshin influence, still being the materialization of fat Boo's evil side, hence still in a restricted level compared to Kid Boo... And by absorbing good Boo, who under this hypothesis had both South Kaioshin and Dai inside him but with Dai coming out stronger (much like Fat Boo had Dai Kaioshin coming out stronger... but with his evil side less controlled, he could still access more of the original power), Grey Boo was able to get control of both South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin inside Good Boo and have South Kaioshin come out stronger with the evil in control.

Buff Boo --- Kid Boo + South Kaioshin
Fat Boo --- Buff Boo + Dai Kaioshin with the latter having more of an impact but still being able to access power ups through anger, with the anger being the release of this evil part that wasn't under total control...
Good Boo --- Dai Kaioshin + South Kaioshin with Dai having more of an impact... Even more than with Fat Boo since Fat Boo being earlier Buff Boo, could still access evil through anger
Grey Boo --- Evil essence of Fat Boo, close but still different from Kid Boo

Grey Boo as the evil of Fat Boo (which isn't a natural evil, it's an evil influenced by the Kaioshins, so still not evil itself like Kid Boo) absorbs Good Boo (Dai + South) but instead of Fat Boo, being the materialization of Fat Boo's evil side, he's able to swift South Kaioshin as the dominant side. So I'd say it's possible Grey Boo hadn't a Kaioshin influence in a sense of having it inside him, but had some rationality as being the evil of Fat Boo, a more tamed evil which still may contain the Kaioshin's influence and come more in the form of confusion and more blended while Kid Boo being the evil itself, unhinged evil.

 

[Power Level Guy]

Yeah. The main thing we get is that Buff Boo is Boo with South Kaioshin coming out strong and achieving a massive power up.... While Fat Boo is Boo with Dai Kaioshin under control and taming Boo, having the opposite effect by calming his heart and locking his power. Kid Boo doesn't have none of the Kaioshins influence...

Which also explains Kaioshin's survival feats. I bet Fat Buu took it easy on Kaioshin because of Dai Kaioshin's influence.

Good Boo --- Dai Kaioshin + South Kaioshin with Dai having more of an impact... Even more than with Fat Boo since Fat Boo being earlier Buff Boo, could still access evil through anger

The difference between Good Buu and Fat Buu is that Kid Buu's influence is gone.

Grey Boo as the evil of Fat Boo (which isn't a natural evil, it's an evil influenced by the Kaioshins, so still not evil itself like Kid Boo)

Yes

All in all it's a great breakdown. Video worthy I'd say. It's so hard to explain the Buus.