Goku (Pre 100x Gravity) and Bardock (TV Special) vs Saiyan Arc Vegeta

[GSM123]

Goku can't use the Kaio-Ken and this is Bardock after his Zenkai that pushes him to 10k+. If Vegeta is too much for the duo, add King Vegeta to the team. Who wins?

2/2 [mention]Supreme[/mention]

 

[SSJ2]

If Galu can't use Kaioken then the team is toast, even if King Vegeta is added. Vegeta is nearly twice as strong as all of these guys.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Assuming this is Goku before his gravity training in general, most we have about where post-Zenkai Galu's base strength lies is his excitement in someone stronger than Vegeta suggesting he's still far below Vegeta. It's also worth noting the DBZ Movie 3 pamphlet lists Movie 2 Galu at 10k and Movie 2 would logically take place 1 year after the Saiyan Arc in its timeline at least, so 10k is probably the absolute limit post-Zenkai Galu should be at. Even with King Vegeta, they get stomped easily when a 16k+ Galu was barely able to react to Vegeta's movements.

If this is during his later training in 50G just prior to 100G, and using the anime version of events due to TV Special Bardock cementing this scenario in the anime continuity, it's possible Galu may be able to take this alone. In Episode 58, not long after Goku has just started training in 100G and has barely started to become aware of the effects of Zenkais, Kaio states each of the Ginyus are roughly equal to Goku, suggesting he'd already reached the 40k level. It'd make sense for him to have brought himself to more or less half that from 50G, considering how commendably he endured his initial brush with 100G. At the very least, he should be able to take it with his dad's help.

 

[Warmmedown]

Vegeta's zenkai from Earth was only about 1.5x. If Goku's was similar he's still around 13000. Unless you can make the argument that Goku got a bigger zenkai than Vegeta, so I'll think about that.

Vegeta was somewhat crushed by Gohan, was blinded in one eye, was slashed on his back by Yajirobe and was hit with a spirit bomb. Goku's legs were crushed by Vegeta's ape form and then his whole body was crushed while he had no ki left, to the point of his arms and probably ribs breaking. Goku definitely took significantly worse physical damage, so maybe he got a bigger zenkai because of that. I'm not sure who was actually closer to death though. I would imagine Goku since he actually passed out, but maybe not.

I was thinking the recovery time could effect the zenkai amount (with quick recoveries from senzu beans or Freeza's healing tank resulting in a bigger boost), but Goku only fully healed after about a month, whereas Vegeta took around 18 days to be fully healed, so that wouldn't work in Goku's favour.

I don't know if Goku talking about Vegeta being stronger than him means he knew he was still weaker than Vegeta's 18000. I've not read that page, but if Goku already understood that zenkais were a thing, then he would just assume Vegeta is still going to be stronger than him.

 

[sei'taer]

It's whatever you want him to be. Goku could easily be stronger than vegeta after recovering from the fight, or he could still be weaker.

He gets 6 zenkai's between the saiyan fight and namek.

 

[Warmmedown]

I want Yamcha to be stronger than Vegeta

 

[Pakl]

Assuming this is Goku before his gravity training in general, most we have about where post-Zenkai Galu's base strength lies is his excitement in someone stronger than Vegeta suggesting he's still far below Vegeta. It's also worth noting the DBZ Movie 3 pamphlet lists Movie 2 Galu at 10k and Movie 2 would logically take place 1 year after the Saiyan Arc in its timeline at least, so 10k is probably the absolute limit post-Zenkai Galu should be at. Even with King Vegeta, they get stomped easily when a 16k+ Galu was barely able to react to Vegeta's movements.

If this is during his later training in 50G just prior to 100G, and using the anime version of events due to TV Special Bardock cementing this scenario in the anime continuity, it's possible Galu may be able to take this alone. In Episode 58, not long after Goku has just started training in 100G and has barely started to become aware of the effects of Zenkais, Kaio states each of the Ginyus are roughly equal to Goku, suggesting he'd already reached the 40k level. It'd make sense for him to have brought himself to more or less half that from 50G, considering how commendably he endured his initial brush with 100G. At the very least, he should be able to take it with his dad's help.

Goku being listed as 10k in movie 2 pamphlet has nothing to do with the canon manga. I have Goku post zenkai at 11k, about the same increase Vegeta got. Also, taking place 1 year after the events of yhe canon because of the dragon balls is irrelevant. Movies are alternative universe and don't follow canon events.

What about Kaio's statement? Goku has kaioken too so why would Kaio be worried? I think it's possible he talked about Goku before blasting off to Namek with the use of the kaioken because that would make him at least equal to Recoome Burter and Jiece. Episode 58 Goku should be well ahead of 40k. 50k seems more accurate.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Goku being listed as 10k in movie 2 pamphlet has nothing to do with the canon manga. I have Goku post zenkai at 11k, about the same increase Vegeta got. Also, taking place 1 year after the events of yhe canon because of the dragon balls is irrelevant. Movies are alternative universe and don't follow canon events.

I mentioned it due to it being the closest thing we have to a source on where post-Saiyan Arc Goku's power would lie. However, you are right in that Piccolo's survival in Movie 2's timeline could have affected the outcome of the battle with Vegeta.

What about Kaio's statement? Goku has kaioken too so why would Kaio be worried? I think it's possible he talked about Goku before blasting off to Namek with the use of the kaioken because that would make him at least equal to Recoome Burter and Jiece.

That is a good point. However, Kaio wouldn't be referring to that Goku since even with Kaioken x4 he wouldn't put up much of a fight against Reacoom, Butta and Jheese. If taking Kaio's statement as fact, then it would make sense for him to be referring to either post-Zenkai or post-20G Goku, with Base Goku's power being around the 10k range.

Episode 58 Goku should be well ahead of 40k.

Not necessarily, at that point he'd just started his 100G training and it's known it was after this he started to really abuse the Zenkai system. Considering that and how wildly Zenkais tended to boost a Saiyan as their battle power increases, his battle power could be far below or far above the 40k threshold for all we know. There's no real set rule for them.