Goku SSJB (Vs Jiren / Episode 109) vs Vegeta SSJB (Start of ToP)?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm watching it.

Also I'm thinking Hit saved Kale from Jiren in episode 100? Watching the clip Kale is about to attack Caulifla, Jiren blasts her away and suddenly she's in Caulifla's arms again.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@SIAD

I'll agree with the chain. Kale would have no problem at all after transforming if she was so strong. That's why I think she had a rage boost in episode 100, it's the only time her LSSJ form seems to be stronger than SSJ2 Caulifla.

 

[SIAD]

@SIAD

I'll agree with the chain. Kale would have no problem at all after transforming if she was so strong. That's why I think she had a rage boost in episode 100, it's the only time her LSSJ form seems to be stronger than SSJ2 Caulifla.

Do you have Kale and Caulifla SSJ2 (Peak) on the same level?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Do you have Kale and Caulifla SSJ2 (Peak) on the same level?

Yes. Equals.

 

[Goku9001]

I'll watch the fight scenes on YouTube.

@Goku9001 also Jiren doesn't even knock Kale out of the arena like he did with Hit, he sends the weaker Pride Troopers to finish her off. What a big threat.

That's consistent with his behavior. Jiren didn't bother blasting Goku off after the ring even after battling UI Omen Goku. Once Goku was no longer deemed a threat, Jiren merely left him alone and went back to meditating. Goku even comments on this, stating that Jiren no longer saw him as a threat and was insulted by it. The same applies to Kale. It doesn't mean both weren't threats under specific circumstances i.e Goku reaching Jiren's level and Kale being a threat to the Pride Troopers.

 

[Goku9001]

Yes. Equals.

Absolutely not. SSJG Goku was easily swatting Caulifa away whereas SSJ2 Kale was actually trading hits. SSJ2 Kale was able to push away one of the ki blasts SSJG Goku used whereas the same blast literally decimated SSJ2 Caulifa.

The only reason SSJ2 Caulifa's performance was up there with Kale's when they were battling SSJ2 Goku was because Kale was following Caulifa's lead. Caulifa tells Kale to follow her lead after Kale ran off recklessly trying to ram into Goku like she did the first time.

 

[Goku9001]

@SIAD

I'll agree with the chain. Kale would have no problem at all after transforming if she was so strong. That's why I think she had a rage boost in episode 100, it's the only time her LSSJ form seems to be stronger than SSJ2 Caulifla.

The narrator and Beerus both claim that Kale had gone berserk again (Ep 114). Goku vividly calls back to his first encounter with Berserker Kale and references her power explicitly. I think you are genuinely confused here, not to mention that Kale blatantly outperforms Caulifa against God Goku.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That's consistent with his behavior. Jiren didn't bother blasting Goku off after the ring even after battling UI Omen Goku. Once Goku was no longer deemed a threat, Jiren merely left him alone and went back to meditating. Goku even comments on this, stating that Jiren no longer saw him as a threat and was insulted by it. The same applies to Kale. It doesn't mean both weren't threats under specific circumstances i.e Goku reaching Jiren's level and Kale being a threat to the Pride Troopers.

I thought about this, but Goku only became a threat when he unlocked a power he had no idea on how to tap again. Kale’s power could be used whenever she was nervous, but even after she gained control of it and knocked half of the Troopers Jiren didn’t bother with her again.

Absolutely not. SSJG Goku was easily swatting Caulifa away whereas SSJ2 Kale was actually trading hits. SSJ2 Kale was able to push away one of the ki blasts SSJG Goku used whereas the same blast literally decimated SSJ2 Caulifa.

The only reason SSJ2 Caulifa's performance was up there with Kale's when they were battling SSJ2 Goku was because Kale was following Caulifa's lead. Caulifa tells Kale to follow her lead after Kale ran off recklessly trying to ram into Goku like she did the first time.

I think he meant SSJ1 Kale and SSJ2 Caulifla. SSJ2 Kale is definitely above Caulifla.

SSJG Goku >> SSJ2 Kale >>> LSSJ Kale ? SSJ3 Goku >>> SSJ2 Caulifla

 

[Goku9001]

I thought about this, but Goku only became a threat when he unlocked a power he had no idea on how to tap again. Kale’s power could be used whenever she was nervous, but even after she gained control of it and knocked half of the Troopers Jiren didn’t bother with her again.



I think he meant SSJ1 Kale and SSJ2 Caulifla. SSJ2 Kale is definitely above Caulifla.

SSJG Goku >> SSJ2 Kale >>> LSSJ Kale ? SSJ3 Goku >>> SSJ2 Caulifla

Except it could not. She only used that power twice throughout the entire tournament.

The point is that your rebuttal of Jiren not getting involved is nonsense. He reduced her to a point where she was no longer a threat like Goku hence why he didn't pursue either of them. Kale never displayed that power against the Pride Troopers hence why he didn't get involved.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Except it could not. She only used that power twice throughout the entire tournament.

The point is that your rebuttal of Jiren not getting involved is nonsense. He reduced her to a point where she was no longer a threat like Goku hence why he didn't pursue either of them. Kale never displayed that power against the Pride Troopers hence why he didn't get involved.

But Kale did go LSSJ at the end of the beam struggle. What’s up with that?

And thrice actually. Don’t forget she went beyond that level vs Goku. Was it her power than made Jiren’s hand twitch? Or was it Kefla?

 

[Goku9001]

But Kale did go LSSJ at the end of the beam struggle. What’s up with that?

And thrice actually. Don’t forget she went beyond that level vs Goku. Was it her power than made Jiren’s hand twitch? Or was it Kefla?

No clue honestly but she seemed control of herself which is the only logical explanation because Kale is only stated to have gone berserk again during Episode 114.

Berserker Kale's power was what made Jiren's hand twitch.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

No clue honestly but she seemed control of herself which is the only logical explanation because Kale is only stated to have gone berserk again during Episode 114.

Berserker Kale's power was what made Jiren's hand twitch.

So she pretty much did have a rage boost.

SSJ2 Kale > LSSJ Kale (114 and 100) > LSSJ Kale (93 and 101) > SSJ Kale

 

[SIAD]

So she pretty much did have a rage boost.

SSJ2 Kale > LSSJ Kale (114 and 100) > LSSJ Kale (93 and 101) > SSJ Kale

So how powerful is Kale Berserker SSJ (Enraged) and Kale SSJ2? I would still say they are inferior to Vegeta SSJB (Start of ToP) due to Vegeta just getting intimidated by feeling the power of Kefla Base (1st Power Up).