Goten, Trunks and 18

[Southern Gothic]

This is one of the biggest debates out there. It was only a matter of time before it came up, right? Well, let's grab the bull by the horns and wrestle this s*** to the ground.

Express your opinion regarding Goten and Trunks vs 18. Did they, as individuals, possess a higher battle power than 18? If so, does that include base form, SSj, or both?

Discuss the 18 and Mighty Mask fight, and your beliefs surrounding it.

 

[Six Trails]

I believe #18 was uberly suppressed against the kids because Lord Beers confirmed that no base saiyans ever surpassed 1st form Freeza.

I can't explain it in words, so let me explain it in numbers, if you will.

Base Goten: 40,000,000
Base Kid Trunks: 42,000,000

Android #18: 350,000,000
-suppressed so she won't kill what she thinks is a normal human (vs. Goten and Trunks): ~40,000,000

Normal / Strong Human: ~10-20ish

So #18 was attacking what she thought was a normal human with a 2-4,000,000x advantage. #18 is just that excessive : )

 

[Bardock]

In my opinion, I can't see them being able to take on Lazuli by them selves. I don't see how people could actually place them at such a high level. I understand they're strong, but it makes zero sense for them to be stronger than Freeza at that point in their lives. They were practically born that way, as Goten only ever learned basic combat from ChiChi and had no outside help aside from playfights/pretend battles with Trunks.

At best, they'd rival Future Gohan, and that's still a stretch to me. As Future Gohan was just barely near Freeza's level. As SsJ's, I'd put them around 80mill tops.

Lazuli was simply suppressed while fighting, nothing more than that. She thought they were advanced humans at first, then came to realization that they were Goten and Trunks. She had no reason to fight at full power.
-The blast scared her
Well, Vegeta also obliterated Cell while he was suppressed, so her being scared while she nerfed herself can't be a valid argument.

Lazuli/Cyborg 18/Cyborg 20(whatever you consider her as) >>> SsJ Trunks >= SsJ Goten

18 - 1000
Trunks - 350
Goten - 335

That's really how I see it, I don't find any sense in seeing it otherwise. I'm open for discussion however.

 

[Six Trails]

The Super Saiyan Kids weaker than #18?

Compare her comments on Android arc Vegeta and Kid Trunks' suppressed blast.

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P10.2-4, P11.1
Context: after Vegeta continues to fight No.18
Vegeta: “This is really starting to annoy me. You act as if nothing’s happened…â€￾
No.18: “I’m surprised. To think that a flesh-and-blood human could be so good, even if you are an alien. Is this man called ‘Son Goku’ even stronger?â€￾
Vegeta: “Don’t kid yourself. He may have temporarily slipped by me, but now things have returned to normal and I should be on top again.â€￾
No.18: <big>“What? So you’re nothing special. Either of you.â€￾</big>

Chapter: 453 (DBZ 259), P12.4, P13.1
Context: after Trunks’ ki blast explodes
No.18: “Yo-you’ve got to be kidding…That energy bullet had absolutely incredible speed and destructive power…<big>Co-could it be that those squirts have outrageous power?</big>…This is dangerous! I’ve got to settle this fight soon!â€￾

 

[Yoshi]

I used to believe in #18 = Base Kids. Then I came across this beastly chain:

Piccolo >>>>> Base Goku >> Base Vegeta >> Base Gohan > Base Trunks > Base Goten > #18

 

[SSJ2]

Base Kids should be slightly superior to 18 individually. Here is a thread that Drew and I made for DBZF (can't seem to locate the debate there (???)) which covers the topic in detail.

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t1982351-base-kids-vs-18/#m36328436

 

[Kyo]

The DBZF thread is this one, if you were still curious: http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8446238/1/

 

[Epicnessbeyond]

Imo Base Kids<18<Piccolo<Base Adults<SSJ Kids. Thats what is implied

 

[SSJ2]

Imo Base Kids<18<Piccolo<Base Adults<SSJ Kids. Thats what is implied

How is Base Kids < 18 implied?

 

[Son Gokū]

You guys REEEEEALLY wanna know?... B-)

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Forget about the link. Let's start a fresh argument here in this forum shall we?

I believe that #18 is stronger than the kids cause she was confident to take them before the kids transform into SSJ. But that doesn't mean the kids are weaker than #18, something like distant rival gap IMO.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

She has to be a good deal stronger than the base kids, because otherwise she wouldn't be confident in winning against them as Super Saiyans.

 

[SSJ2]

She has to be a good deal stronger than the base kids, because otherwise she wouldn't be confident in winning against them as Super Saiyans.

She was never confident in beating them. She knew she could expose them with a kienzan, a move she would not use on a regular competitor. She was banking on the fact that she could get them disqualified.

 

[Son Gokū]

She has to be a good deal stronger than the base kids, because otherwise she wouldn't be confident in winning against them as Super Saiyans.

She was never confident in beating them. She knew she could expose them with a kienzan, a move she would not use on a regular competitor. She was banking on the fact that she could get them disqualified.

Or was she?... :O
"BUM BUM BUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMM!"