Gotenks and Goku

[Classic Adamas]

At what point does Gotenks surpass Goku? Like, is Base Gotenks (pre RoSaT) > SSJ3 Goku?

 

[Six Trails]

SS Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) >/>> SS3 Goku > Fat Boo > Base Gotenks (pre-RoSaT)

 

[Captain Cadaver]

^Pretty much this.

 

[p123]

Super Saiyans Gotenks Pre Today surpasses Ssj3 Goku. Gotenks is stated to be stronger than Goku and no one goes against it.

 

[Clearin]

Pre base Gotenks can't be stronger considering how badly he got his ass kicked. SSj Gotenks pre is pretty much stated to be stronger than SSj3 Goku. In other words, what Subordinate Orlen said.

 

[p123]

I refuse to make Base Gotenks Post > Super Saiyans Gotenks Pre. Fuck that shit.

 

[SSJ2]

So you refuse to abide by many statements and implications?

 

[p123]

Yea I change whatever doesn't work to make a more perfect adaption of the series.

1) Trunks being a Ssj already in the Future Saga and fighting Bass Gohan has been removed. The TV special is more in line with what makes sense.

2) Bardock being 10k blows fuck that.

3) Had to rewrite half the Buu Saga

And so on. Little statement changes etc.

 

[SSJ2]

So basically you believe it to be true, but you consider it a numerical impossibility?

 

[p123]

There's that too. It is indeed a numerical impossibility, you must remember how heavy I am into the leveling side of things. Although he never wrote the story with actual numerics involved its surprisingly easy to make 99% of the statements and suggestions work. So considering that a 1% throwawy rate is pretty damn good all things considered.

 

[SSJ2]

Why not just change your Super Saiyan multiplier for fusions? 4x or so works well.

 

[p123]

Because after numerous lists I found out really the only major issue that would cause a change from the 50x boost is Gotenks. Hell, the Base Saiyans end up way too strong without a 50x boost in the Buu Saga as well.

There are some minor issues with it, but I've become a strict 50xer and see through those eyes.

The only issue with it besides that is Vegetto being an and compared to Gokhan but realistically that's how it should be ain't it?

Check out my list, it works pretty damn well with the flat 50x boost I don't have any of those Kaioken issues.

 

[SSJ2]

I'll look at your Boo arc later, I don't doubt that they work well. I just can't ignore something as major as Base > Pre to make the hypothetical fighters work better.

Also the Kaioken issues can be explained by the risks that are associated with Kaioken.

 

[p123]

Show me how it would work and I'll consider it. I'm sure you know of the issues but I'll do a breakdown for everyone else.

So we have Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre

Alright so to make this the most reasonable we need Base Gotenks Pre > Majin Vegeta. So the Ssj boost is as small as possible. Ok so lets go with the smallest boost possible.

2x boost for Ssj. Alright so if we are using a linear boost we have major issues.

Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre only happens if we have Base Goten Post > Ssj Goten Pre.

This is not suggested at all.

So lets make it non linear. Well the rate of change with that small of a gap should lead to Base Gogeta one shotting Ultimate Gohan x100. It's too fast of a progression.

How do we make the powers line up?

If a power similar to Base Goten fused without Ssj how strong would they be? What about a Super Saiyan level?

This causes the Ssj boost to be linear for Goten and Gotenks which now you are talking a puny Ssj multiplier.

Is it worth ruining the whole series for? For something gag as hell?

Super Buu >= Ssj Gotenks Post >> Ssj Gotenks Pre

Is how the chain ends up finally. Throwing away the Base gags lead to a really Concrete and reasonable chain as you can see.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Gotenks' Super-Saiyan even before going into the RoSaT arguably surpasses Goku.

 

[Six Trails]

Gotenks' Super-Saiyan even before going into the RoSaT arguably surpasses Goku.

I don't think there's really much of an argument against that.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Gotenks' Super-Saiyan even before going into the RoSaT arguably surpasses Goku.

I don't think there's really much of an argument against that.

Well you could say Goku lied.

 

[SSJ2]

So lets make it non linear. Well the rate of change with that small of a gap should lead to Base Gogeta one shotting Ultimate Gohan x100. It's too fast of a progression.

I explain this by saying that training while fused will benefit the fused fighter a lot more than the individual. If Gogeta did some training, he'd surely gain a lot of power. We can also attribute this to the kids having so much more potential than their parents, thus allowing their fusion to come close to their father's.

 

[Troyrountree]

SSJ Gotenks(Pre) > SSJ3 Goku > Fat buu > SSJ2 Goku

 

[p123]

Still doesn't make sense man. How strong is Gotenks Post compared to Gogeta now that Gotenks has gained massive power as Gotenks alone while Gogeta hasn't been able to do the same?

You'll end up with Gotenks way more powerful than Gogeta. Which doesn't work.