Gotenks base (pre RoSaT) vs Majin Vegeta SSJ2
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Vegeta one-shots.
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I don't see Gotenks having so much confidence if he were still in the same league or weaker than a guy Boo stomped, plus he did manage to survive an encounter with the Majin. Gotenks stomps.
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Trunks even reckoned Vegeta would have no chance on his own but Gotenks thought he could beat Boo.
Gotenks also survived a fight with Fatso, while it was made clear that death was the only outcome for Vegeta.
Gotenks also survived a fight with Fatso, while it was made clear that death was the only outcome for Vegeta.
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Evidenced by?Pakl said:
There's a difference between cockiness and pure delusion. Even Gotenks wouldn't be so overconfident if his power was still lower than Vegeta's. That's purely illogical.
Typical argument of Gotenks nerfers. Anything's a gag in regard to his strength by that logic.
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Just give SSJ a small multiplier for fusions and you can have Base Gotenks>Majin Vegeta
with no problems.
with no problems.
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Base Gotenks wins with high-diff if he's serious. If not, Vegeta takes advantage and pulls it out 50/50.
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Captain Cadaver said:
I am not nerfing Gotenks... If SSjin Gotenks is just a little stronger than SSjin 3 Goku at best, then his base cant be so strong... And the whole low multiplier is not backed up and fan bias... He has no feats... And the scene was gag as it later shows how he went back all beat up... When he goes SSjin there was no gag...
A base fuaion should not be so strong anyway.... Every other source debunks it....
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Vegeta defeat Gotenks with low difficulty.
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If anything, that proves that having things like set multipliers aren't a solid concept. Toriyama's made such clear in the past that he seldom thinks of things numerically when writing the story.Pakl said:
Yet has plenty of statements to validate his strength.
That just shows his estimations were far less accurate than Piccolo's likely out of being far less experienced at Ki sensing. Not only that, but Goku even commented on Boo's Ki being a "lie" of sorts, implying it's very hard to accurately judge. It's not improbable to assume Gotenks and Piccolo reached different conclusions from the nature of Boo's Ki.
Then you're implying that SS2s > Base Vegetto as well?
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Bakl 
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Set multipliers mever changed in Z... What makes you think Gotenks is an exception?Captain Cadaver said:If anything, that proves that having things like set multipliers aren't a solid concept. Toriyama's made such clear in the past that he seldom thinks of things numerically when writing the story.Pakl said:
Yet has plenty of statements to validate his strength.
That just shows his estimations were far less accurate than Piccolo's likely out of being far less experienced at Ki sensing. Not only that, but Goku even commented on Boo's Ki being a "lie" of sorts, implying it's very hard to accurately judge. It's not improbable to assume Gotenks and Piccolo reached different conclusions from the nature of Boo's Ki.
Then you're implying that SS2s > Base Vegetto as well?
I choose to say it was gag... The entire scan was gag anyway.... Gotenks is a gag character... What makes you think he is SSjin 2 tier? Piccolo said he was strong but still weak for Boo..m he can be in par with Perfect Cell for all we know...
Base Vegetto is a different story.. Potara is much stronger than fusion... Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than the kids and their fusion os more competent due to rival boost...
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Is there a proof that they are always a constant thing? It was surely far above 10x in Freeza's saga, but there's no reason it'd be kept as such a boost specially when Akira Toriyama has even stated he drew the 'stuff' more with a 10x boost in mind, which would then indicate that he taking a 50x boost into consideration when doing power implications is folly. The numbers should adjust to fit the story implications, not vice-versa.
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I think Vegeta wins. Gotenks' confidence would also suggest Base Gotenks pre > SS3 Goku since as far as everyone besides Piccolo knew, not even Goku could beat Boo. The only requirement (for me) for Base Gotenks pre's strength is that he's stronger than Piccolo, since Piccolo obviously would've stopped Gotenks if he could have.
