How good was Ash's Heracross?

Southern Gothic

Super Elite
Staff member
Global Moderator
Red Ribbon Army
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
19,128
Age
40
I strongly remember the episode of Ash catching Heracross was the last episode of the Anime I watched. Maybe a couple of the movies here and there afterwords. Something about that episode bummed me out, perhaps do to the notion that Ash and his pokemon were sort of "rebooting" as became the trend every new season.

So I never gave ol' Heracross a chance. What ever happened with that fella? :bordoga
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,975
Stronger than SSJ4 Goku. He's never been cut by glass.
 

Symbiote

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,074
Age
32
It's the same like his Snorlax, stayed on his team for a little while then got sent to Oak's Lab only to be used in League matches.
 

Super Saiyan Overlord1007

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
2,289
Age
29
I wouldn't say Ash was "rebooted" per se. Starting over with Pikachu sure but not rebooting. He retain all of his experience and began increasingly more mature with time peaking in Sinnoh. However I've heard Unova took all of the maturity, competence, and experience he gained from his travels and through it out the window and rebooted him to noob status. Although in Kalos he's more mature/competent than he's ever been so far.

It was a powerhouse during the Johto region. I'd say his mandatory regional powerhouse. However he didn't have many league battles, I don't even think he had any gym battles. Heracross' noteworthy record I believe is

Beating Gary's Magmar in the Johto League only to be one shotted by Gary's Blastoise not long afterwards.
Fighting Tobias' Darkrai, scoring a good hit with Megahorn but was K.O.'d not long afterwards.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
It was one of Ash's strongest Pokemon for sure based it's performance against Tobias' Darkrai. Easily the strongest Pokemon he caught in Johto by a large margin.
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
As far as levelling and stats, probably massively superior. Heracross being used against Tobias whilst Quilava only being used against Conway in the Sinnoh League seems a good indication of such, along with their overall win/loss ratio. As far as Ash's Johto Pokemon go atm, I'd say Heracross > Donphan > Noctowl > Quilava > Bayleef ~ Totodile
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,975
Do you think Quilava evolving a second time could give it the edge based on past examples (minus Torterra)? I don't care about the anime very much, but his johto pokemon have always been kind of underpowered compared to most non-BW teams so one of his starters could use a final form
 

Super Saiyan Overlord1007

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
2,289
Age
29
I'd say Heracross is a Tier 2 Pokémon that Ash owns

Tier 1
Pikachu
Greninja
Charizard
Sceptile
Infernape
Snorlax
Krookidile (From what I've heard)

Tier 2
Heracross
Swellow
Hawlucha
Talonflame
Gliscor
Glalie
Bulbasaur
Squirtle
Buizel
Goodra
 

Captain Cadaver

Zeta Elite
Retired Staff
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
27,967
Papasmurf said:
Do you think Quilava evolving a second time could give it the edge based on past examples (minus Torterra)? I don't care about the anime very much, but his johto pokemon have always been kind of underpowered compared to most non-BW teams so one of his starters could use a final form
Depends purely on what the writers want to do, since they can make a Pokemon go through a mind blowing level jump via evolution depending on how they feel (eg. Noibat going from shit tier to doing fairly well combating a Zapdos once evolving in a time difference of a few seconds).
 

Super Saiyan Overlord1007

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
2,289
Age
29
Uchiha said:
Why is Goodra tier 2?

Goodra had a 100% win rate before the Kalos League where it didn't win any of the battles it participated in (Stalemated with Shota's Slurpuff and lost to Alain's Bisharp). I think it should be Tier 2 at best despite having the least amount of screentime of all of Ash's Kalos Pokémon being released 15 episodes after it was caught and appearing in 5 or 6 episodes after that.
 

Super Saiyan Overlord1007

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
2,289
Age
29
Uchiha said:
Fair point. What about Talonflame?

All of Ash's Kalos Pokémon had some good feats this season that puts them in Tier 2 at best (Except Noivern who was pretty much the weak link of this team, but that's somewhat fair considering he's a hatchling still and Greninja who's proved himself to be Ash's strongest Pokémon if not one of his Top 3 at the least).

Talonflame - One of Ash's primary Gym Battlers who competed in ALL of Ash's Kalos Gym Battles (Except vs. Clemont) and took at least one Pokémon down in almost every gym battle before going down itself (With the exception of Olympia where it tag teamed with Frogadier to win that one, also Ash vs. Olympia is hands down the best Gym Battle I've ever seen). Not to mention Talonflame fought Moltres (but it lost that fight and would've died if Ash hadn't jumped into a volcano to save it and Frogadier saving the two of them from falling into said volcano). Only had 1 Kalos League win beating Shota's Slaking and stalemating with Alain's Unfezant.

Hawlucha - Like Talonflame a primary battler but only appeared in 5 of Ash's 10 Kalos Gym Battles, but when he did he won most of his matches and had more Kalos League wins than Talonflame beating a Mega Absol and Alain's Weavile after tanking a barrage of Ice Beams and Night Slashes. He has impressive showings like shattering Valerie's Trick Room and fighting Zapdos (Although he didn't win).

Goodra - 100% Win Rate before the Kalos League.
Noivern - Has only had FIVE battles since being caught by Ash and lost most of them. Lost to Alain's Metang & Weavile and Shota's Clawitzer. He beat Shota's Doublade and stalemated with his Salamence in the Kalos League. But other than that, Noivern is the new Torterra. (He fought the same Zapdos that beat Hawlucha and gained the upperhand before Team Rocket interrupted said battle).

Greninja - The Ace of the Kalos Team. Won most of his battles as a Froakie, was undefeated as Frogadier, and has only lost 4 times as a Greninja. Strong enough to go head to head with Elite Four level Pokémon such as Alain's Mega Charizard X and Champion Diantha's Gardevoir and he almost beat both of them back to back but didn't due to the Ash-Greninja form being too much of a strain on Ash and caused Ash to pass out before those battles could conclude. But apparently he swept the entire Kalos League for Ash by himself until the Top 8, dominated a Mega Sceptile and tanked a couple of Leaf Storms and still won. However for some BS reason he lost to Alain's Mega Charizard X costing Ash the finals (although I'm being told that there might've been some foul play involved in that match).
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,975
Ash sucks and will never win a Pokemon League. I think this league pretty much proved people need to accept the status quo by now.
 

Papasmurf

Zeta Elite
Legend
Member
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
30,975
Fanboys are even complaining about the fact that there's no internal monologue of Ash's about finally getting to the final round this time, lol. The pettiness of this fandom knows no bounds.
 

Super Saiyan Overlord1007

High Class Warrior
Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
2,289
Age
29
I can understand the disappointment and anger. Throughout XY Ash has been written to be as mature/competent of a trainer as he was in DP, he had a good team of Pokémon with some OP feats. All of his Pokémon barring Noivern had their chance to shine in the spotlight, an entire arc dedicated to him mastering Ash-Greninja which was already strong enough to contend with Elite Four level Pokémon even when it wasn't perfect. Mentioning that he's fought Alain twice before the league and never won, and a title called "Kalos League Victory, Ash's Ultimate Match" everything was pointing to Ash finally getting his moment and with the anime coming on it's 20th anniversary next year the time seemed perfect. I think people are more disappointed than angry (both of course) but still, understandably so.
 

Uchiha

High Class Warrior
Retired Staff
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
3,016
I can understand it too and I don't even watch the anime
 
Top