How strong are fused attacks (like the Final-Kamehameha etc)?

[Cirno777]

Personally I just multiply the multiplier of both attacks with eachother, so Kamehameha (2.22x) & Final Flash (I have as a 6.66x multiplier) = 14.7852. That's basically headcanon though, so I was wondering if anyone has any method for actually quantifying these fused attacks.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I don't think amplified blasts ever existed after the saiyan saga, but when it comes to Vegetto's Final Kamehameha according to Shin, Goku and Vegeta used the Final Kamehameha to the point of not being able to turn into SSJs afterwards. Also the preview of the Chapter 66 said that they would be using their full power on him.

Spoiler

 

[Cirno777]

I don't think amplified blasts ever existed after the saiyan saga, but when it comes to Vegetto's Final Kamehameha according to Shin, Goku and Vegeta used the Final Kamehameha to the point of not being able to turn into SSJs afterwards. Also the preview of the Chapter 66 said that they would be using their full power on him.

Spoiler

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Hmm? Why wouldn't blast amplification exist beyond the Saiyan Saga? You mean it exists in the Saiyan Saga, but disappears after?

If you disregard blast amplification, then I guess it'd be at least equal to the Final Flash, going by "All right! Let's put as much strength into it as we can and show our real power!" you could say it takes all the Ki in ones body, same as the Final Flash is described in Daizenshuu 7.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Hmm? Why wouldn't blast amplification exist beyond the Saiyan Saga? You mean it exists in the Saiyan Saga, but disappears after?

If you disregard blast amplification, then I guess it'd be at least equal to the Final Flash, going by "All right! Let's put as much strength into it as we can and show our real power!" you could say it takes all the Ki in ones body, same as the Final Flash is described in Daizenshuu 7.

Because in every time we only have seen characters stating that they are going to go all-out, they're going to use their full power, they are going to make an attack with all of their strength, etc. None attack is portrayed or stated to increase the power of the user.

That's my point, Vegetto's Final Kamehameha is just his a technique charged with his full power.

 

[Cirno777]

Because in every time we only have seen characters stating that they are going to go all-out, they're going to use their full power, they are going to make an attack with all of their strength, etc. None attack is portrayed or stated to increase the power of the user.

That's my point, Vegetto's Final Kamehameha is just his a technique charged with his full power.

But it's clearly portrayed in the Saiyan Saga that they increase bp, why should that disappear further into the story?

Piccolo even says to 1st Form Cell that his Kamehameha is weak because it's a Saiyan Saga Kamehameha, I don't see any way you could twist that into it not being a multiplier further in, if you indeed accept the Saiyan Saga Kamehameha being an amplifier.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

But it's clearly portrayed in the Saiyan Saga that they increase bp, why should that disappear further into the story?

Not exactly, Goku's Kamehameha was rivalled by Vegeta's Garlick Gun. Not every Kamehameha has a greater power than the user and that's shown in many other occasions.

Piccolo even says to 1st Form Cell that his Kamehameha is weak because it's a Saiyan Saga Kamehameha, I don't see any way you could twist that into it not being a multiplier further in, if you indeed accept the Saiyan Saga Kamehameha being an amplifier.

I have always considered that statement as something weird as if Piccolo thought as if that Kamehameha has the same power as the one Saiyan Saga Goku use and that's why he consider it trash. However, I don't think that has anything to do with amplification.

We have seen Goku launching a full power Kamehameha on Cell being directly called like that or Goku thinking that Gohan with all of his power would be able to kill SPC. In none of those instances, is stated that those attacks increased the battle power of the user. Therefore, it is what it is.

 

[Cirno777]

Not exactly, Goku's Kamehameha was rivalled by Vegeta's Garlick Gun. Not every Kamehameha has a greater power than the user and that's shown in many other occasions.

When I say it's portrayed, I mean it's shown that upon using the Kamehameha, Goku's initial bp reading of 416 is raised to a bp reading 924




Do you deny this instance? Or do you accept that in this instance the Kamehameha multiplied his bp, but every time after this doesn't?


And it's funny that you bring up the Vegeta's Galick Gun thing, I just read another post that had something about that in it. Anyway, that 24k vs 18k can be chalked up to Goku getting weaker as the fight progressed, coupled with his repeated use of the Kaiouken, which destroys his body, it's not unreasonable to presume that his base had gotten weaker to the point that a Kaiouken X3 only matched Vegeta.

I have always considered that statement as something weird as if Piccolo thought as if that Kamehameha has the same power as the one Saiyan Saga Goku use and that's why he consider it trash. However, I don't think that has anything to do with amplification.

There's no way it's not to do with amplification, if Cell simply gathered all the Ki in his body & fired it, it would be just as strong as if not stronger than Goku's Kamehameha against, say, C19, or at least against Freeza. That's why you consider the statement as weird, Piccolo's statement viewed through this lense is nonsensical.

However, if the Kamehameha is an amplifying technique in the Cell Saga, just as it was in the Saiyan Saga, it makes perfect sense for a Kamehameha based on the Saiyan Saga Goku to be inferior. If Goku's Kamehameha has become more multiplicative since then.

We have seen Goku launching a full power Kamehameha on Cell being directly called like that or Goku thinking that Gohan with all of his power would be able to kill SPC. In none of those instances, is stated that those attacks increased the battle power of the user. Therefore, it is what it is.

It doesn't have to be explicitly stated, it's already been established that they multiply bp.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think it's just the power of two attacks added together. MZ must be practically immune to Ki blasts if he can walk out of a conbined multiplier of FF and FP KHH. Unnecessary bloat, plus Gotenks and canon Gogeta don't use combined attacks.